Brothers Reading Books
Will and Michael.
Two brothers reading books.
Join us in our online book club as we go through classic books with a focus on science fiction and fantasy.
Brothers Reading Books
Dune Part 2 - Arrival on Arrakis
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Two brothers break down Dune’s early chapters where training, ecology, and prophecy converge to shape power on Arrakis. We follow Paul’s teachers, Jessica’s tests, and Leto’s strategy as the threat of betrayal grows more certain.
• fate versus free will set against classical themes
• mentat focus, Bene Gesserit methods, and the art of ruling
• Arrakis ecology as survival code: storms, stillsuits, water rites
• Gurney’s blade lesson and shield timing as metaphor for strategy
• Dr Yueh’s grief, the Orange Catholic Bible, and foreshadowed treachery
• CHOAM, spice economics, and guild secrecy
• Missionaria Protectiva myths activated by Jessica
• The crysknife test with Shadout Mapes and cultural trust
• Palm trees as the math of scarcity and value signaling
• Sardaukar hardness versus winning Fremen loyalty with respect
• Paul’s emerging “terrible purpose” beyond mentat training
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Setting Scope: Why Dune Matters
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to Brothers Reading Books, a book club podcast. We are your hosts. I am Michael Kentris. And I'm Will Kentris. And thank you for joining us. Today we are continuing our journey to the desert planet Arrakis, or Dune. So we're we're continuing Dune, Will. So I think we're obviously we're still new into the podcast format here with our current book club. And um kind of finding our pacing. So we were talking uh over this week about how many chapters. You know, Dune's kind of weird because it doesn't really have chapter numbers per se. So we've just been numbering them a little bit as we go. So we're we're roughly doing chapters four through eight, so about five chapters today. So what's your what's your hot take uh initially on this little section that we read for today?
SPEAKER_01So as I guess, yeah, a hot take. I don't know if I actually have one. The one thing though I do find interesting is that just everyone seems to be aware of what is going on. Like there there doesn't seem to be necessarily any secret schemes going on. Just all the characters to some degree have cognizance of things that are going to happen. Paul seems to be the only one who's kind of frustrated that they aren't trying to Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's there again, like like we talked about last time, this kind of push and pull between, you know, independent agency versus fate or prophecy or this kind of inevitable destiny, right? And I think there there is language used at various times that imply a certain inevitability to certain actions, which, again, right, it's that's always that's always the tension. And this is something we see all the way back into like classical Bronze Age literature, I should say, literature about Bronze Age. Like the Iliad is a kind of a classic exposition on this is it willed by the gods? What role does man's will play in the events that occur? So a very, very classic theme that's kind of being played out here again.
Agency, Fate, And Ancient Themes
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so definitely excited to see how it plays out. I mean, I I know how it plays out after, you know, just with how popular it is and seeing it in other forms of media, but definitely interested in seeing how it plays out in the book itself.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah, to your to your point, not to jump too far ahead of where we're starting from, but uh I like the phrase a faint within a faint within a faint. So like kind of whole wheels within wheels, as you were saying. So as we as we open this section, we are introduced to a number of new characters, and uh we get get some interesting discourse, I think. So we are kind of we're still at Castle Caledon, and we're meeting essentially some of Paul's teachers. And again, uh just each of these chapters is starting off with these I was trying to find a term for it, and the closest I could come was what they called metafiction, which is essentially like a fictional work within a fictional work that is kind of referential to the works. Now, some people might say like, you know, like a frame story, but that would be the story inside which the story occurs. Like the example would that I came across was like the Princess Bride movie, where you have this frame story is the the old man telling his grandson or reading him a story, and then the framed story is the actual Princess Bride narrative. So that's not quite what we have here, but I thought metafiction was sufficiently esoteric-sounding enough for me.
SPEAKER_01But uh just as a quick aside, so I read The Princess Bride, the book itself a few years ago, and I was also thrown by the fact that the book itself also contains reference to, yeah, a piece of this metafiction. I was like, well, okay, who is this author? And every time I would try to Google it, it would take me to the Wikipedia page for the Princess Bride, and it wasn't until about like 50 pages into the reading that I realized, oh, it's fake. This is this is not it got me. And so I could only imagine when it was first published, people being like, okay, I'm interested in this original piece of fiction too.
SPEAKER_00Right, right, right, right. And uh I think the author for each of these entries so far has been the Princess Irulin, who again we we don't know much about as of yet. But um but she has apparently various different works, so this one's like a child's history of Muadib. There have been different like chronicles of Muadib, the household of Muadib, etc. etc. But I thought this one was a particular like I ended up highlighting almost all this entry here. But you have read that Muadib had no playmates his own age on Kaladin, the dangers were too great, but Muadib did have wonderful companion teachers. And I I really liked the I liked the purple prose, you know. There was Gurney Halleck, the Troubadour warrior. You will sing some of Gurney's songs as you read along in this book. There was Sufer Hawat, the old mentat master of assassins who struck fear even to the heart of the Padashah Emperor. There were Duncan Idaho, the swordmaster of the Genaz, Dr. Wellington Yui, a name black in treachery but bright in knowledge, the Lady Jessica who guided her son in the Benny Jesseret way, and of course the Duke Leto, whose qualities as a father have long been overlooked. So it's it's very much like a list of like, hey, here's some of these people who are very important in Paul Atredi's life, and we're gonna meet some of them right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And again, further to that point, it's it's confirming furthermore that, okay, Paul is this Muadi character, as we get immediate uh clarification that yes, we know that he is on Kaladin or from Kaladin. We know the Lady Jessica, then Duke Leto, of course. Uh, we've heard references of Dr. Wellington Yue, and yeah, we are immediately going to be introduced here to Sufer and Gurney, who are both great in their own way. Yeah, I think they're both very interesting characters.
Mentats, Training, And Ecology
SPEAKER_00So so Sufer Howat is this, again, as they said, a mentat or a you know, a human thinking machine, or I should say, someone trained to be as a thinking machine, so kind of like a human computer, after kind of the Butlerian jihad that was mentioned in passing. And I just love the description that uh that they had of him just right out of the gate. He stood there a moment feeling old and tired and storm leathered. His left leg ached where it had been slashed once in the service of the old Duke. It just I write this this immediate fatigue, this this weariness. You know, storm leathered, you know, I usually think of storm weathered, but I I just gave a little bit of a different flavor to it there. I mean, that you still get the same implications. Um but uh you get this feeling of an old, experienced uh man who has been loyal for generations now, right? Because we have the the grandfather, Duke, current Duke, and Paul, and so he's kind of been training all of them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That was definitely the one question that I had. So three generations of them now, he thought, in reference to the Dukes. And part of me was wondering, is he just long-lived, or has it just been a short line of the Dukes, short generations, but I I wasn't sure if that was potentially going to be an aspect of being a mentat if they were long-lived or if they experienced altered kind of longevity.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I think that's a fair question, because we we've gotten reference to the the spice, the melange of um having different properties and the the blue within the blue eyes of the mentat, uh, or at least uh the ones who had blue eyes before, I should say. But uh it's certainly very possible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. He he enters the room where Paul is kind of entertaining himself with studies, and he immediately just tells him, Hey, don't sit with your back to the door. It's very appropriate for a Master of Assassins to be lecturing on. It does seem to be a reoccurring thing. It's like, is it safe? Are things safe? So it it definitely hints to just constantly this sort of scheming or underlying danger that is always lurking at the edges of just every interaction that they have. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And we kind of get some hints again at at Paul's training with this, uh, where he says that he heard him coming down the hall and he could recognize him by the sounds he was making, and then you know, Hoofer says, like, I well could have been imitated. And Paul basically says, nah, I would have known. So again, right, it's just this element of uh like we talked about in the previous conversation, is Benny just a bit training as far as like the what do they call it, the minutia of observation. Um, so kind of this uh preternatural level of awareness of one's surroundings and making informed observations. God, that sounds redundant. But basically processing that information in a way that you can make good conclusions.
SPEAKER_01Right. It it definitely does intimate that, especially with kind of further on as we go, that he does have this extensive training with Thufer. Is that how you say his name? I know I'm gonna be saying that this entire book. Is that is that how you say that? I believe so, yes. But uh yeah, just in terms of him being able to make kind of these insightful observations or deductions, and it does seem like all of his how how are they described, his companion teachers just seem to be very impressed with his ability to kind of think on the fly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, you get these like flashes of insight, these epiphanies that he that Paul comes up with kind of time and again, right? We're very early in this and we're already seeing this kind of as a pattern. And I mean it's really annoying in some books when you get these characters who, you know, are kind of like you know, Mary Sue about everything. They just do everything right, know everything. I don't get that with Paul, though, because they've very specifically said that he has gone through rigorous training to achieve these levels of ability, levels of ability despite his youth. So I think it's being it's being set up very specifically to build this kind of character, right? It's not just like kind of pulled out of a hat. So I I don't find that to be as irritating as in some situations where there wouldn't be that that kind of backstory development. Right.
Storms, Still Suits, And Survival
SPEAKER_01A faultless character with no imperfections who can do everything and anything. Yes. So Thufir kind of uh badgers him a little bit, and he asks Paul what he's been up to, and Paul's been reading up on Arrakis, specifically about the storms, and Thufir tells him a little more about how terrible just the general ecology and life on Arrakis is. Just these gigantic storms that can build up across six or seven thousand kilometers of flatlands, just destroy everything, they can eat flesh off bones and etch the bones to slivers. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. We get this extended discursion on ecology, which you know, in modern fiction is very unusual. But uh there's there's definitely a like this era back in the 1960s where I think this kind of thing was much more common. And there's another author I used to read a lot of L. E. Modeset, and I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name correctly, I apologize if I'm not. But he a lot of his science fiction also would be very like ecologically driven. Uh, and he he wrote a lot of his sci-fi kind of in the the sixties through eighties, if I remember correctly. So it definitely has like kind of a a flavor of that era of science fiction writing. But it's it's very interesting. I mean, it's it's a different kind of world building than we normally think of. But uh but yeah, right, we're talking about this desert planet, the dangers of that planet, and it's really contrasting it kind of with the the damp, almost implied softness of Kaladin and the coming trials on Arrakis, which uh is everything, right? Where he said, like uh Paul says the storms they sound pretty bad. And then Thufer says, that's too cautious a word, bad. And then, as you said, right, he he goes on in this like entire paragraph telling you, like, let me tell you just how bad these are. That's right. Let me provide some actual context for you. So yeah, it's and then not just that, but then they talk about the water or the lack thereof, which is this this recurring theme. And you know, you can really go down some rabbit trails with like the significance of water, you know, from a cultural, religious, um, just pure basic need perspective. They start mentioning these devices that the people on Arrakis wear called still suits. And I thought that the way that they represented them on in the recent movies was pretty, pretty okay. But essentially, right, it's a it's a way to collect every drop of moisture that your body excretes, right? So your sweat, your urine, the breath that comes out of you, like every drop of moisture that you would normally expire gets recollected and basically filtered and put back into potable water so you can stay hydrated. So, yeah, you get this concept sometimes where they talk about a place as a character, and um they kind of almost are telegraphing that here, where Hawatz in his internal monologue trying to emphasize the planet as an enemy, which again, I think, is a little bit of foreshadowing, and it kind of emphasizes a little bit of difference in perspective with Thufer, who's kind of an old grizzled assassin, versus like the youthful Paul, or even later on, uh Paul's father. And so you kind of get this different perception of the planet as a character for us as the reader, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh it's it's definitely described in great detail. I do appreciate the fact that it goes into so much detail, specifically about the ecology. I I appreciate that sort of world building where since part of that planet, the melange, the spice, is such an integral part of the intergalactic economy, we're kind of understanding the conditions under why it is as precious as it is, not only for its applications, but for its harvesting and the difficulty in collecting it in the first place. So I it's definitely something that, yeah, you don't necessarily see in a lot of modern fiction. I feel like to an extent Brandon Sanderson will do this, not necessarily to this degree, but it will kind of explain to the at least a degree kind of the general impact it has on the people's culture and the way that they do things.
Gurney’s Balliset And Blade Lessons
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, there are some who will be critical and say, oh, this is like uh info dump or you know, just like exposition for exposition's sake. But I think you can do it if you do it well. And like some of this is right, there's a little bit of a flashback to his conversation with the Reverend Mother here. Uh they do it in a way that is almost poetical at times. So it's it's not just like, you know, at this latitude, blah blah blah, the relative humidity is whatever. Um, you know, it's not just it's not like reading a weather report. It's it's more visceral. I like the the way that there's this this rhythm to the Reverend Mother's uh descriptions. Will mean a hollow out of the wind and hidden from view. You'll ride upon your own two feet without Thopter or ground car or mount. And they say even there he thought it was sing song and wavering. It was the tone. So there's kind of like you get this repetitive rhythm to the speech, which can still draw you in, even though it might not be telling you. It's just it's a description of of how you will feel rather than what it is. Kind of that show-down-tell kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I I also had basically that entire paragraph highlighted just because I agree that the cadence of it was fantastic. Just again, just describing things, how they would feel rather than what they are. It definitely does kind of, you know, allow the reader to infer just the general conditions without, like you said, explicitly stating, these are the facts. So yeah, she continues on in this flashback though, of saying, you know, when you live upon Arrakis, Kahlo, the land is empty, the moons will be your friends, the sun your enemy, and Lady Jessica is like, Do you see no hope, Reverend Mother? Yeah. Not not for the father.
SPEAKER_00So just a quick aside here. And again, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but uh I I have to assume that our writer here, Mr. Frank Herbert, is an educated man, um, because this is too complicated of a work not to be written by someone who has some uh some knowledge there. So the moons will be your friends, the sun your enemy. So in uh one of the Psalms, you know, it it does say uh the sun will not scourge you by day nor the moon by night. And uh it's it's reference to you know being protected by by God. But again, right, it he kind of takes these different religious influences and melds them together a little bit here. So you kind of get these little like uh breadcrumbs in there, where you get this whether it's intentionally referencing a specific work or if it is just to evoke a sensation of something weighty and heavy and of a kind of religious tone. I think that's up to interpretation to a degree, but but it it is, I think, kind of it has that same flavor there. So just something that uh I noticed as we were reading through there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, see, I again I uh looked at it only at the surface level, like, yeah, of course, the sun's gonna be bad. Travel by night.
SPEAKER_00And there are I mean, sometimes they're explicit about it. Uh sometimes they just have little bits here, and I'm sure I'm missing things from other traditions. You know, listener, please forgive me if I do. But uh, if I notice something, I'll I'll try and see if it makes sense.
SPEAKER_01So we uh we continue with kind of this flashback additionally, more more kind of advice imparted from the Reverend Mother. I feel like this kind of ties in a little more with what she was wanting in the first place of like making sure that Paul is a human. So she says there are four things that support a world, and then the learning of the wise, justice of the great, the prayers of the righteous, valor of the brave, but all of these are as nothing without a ruler who knows the art of ruling. Make that the science of your tradition.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it's interesting. Like if we I mean, we God, we could spend you know hours talking about like just those four things, right? Like wisdom, justice, righteousness, bravery, right? I mean, these are things that have been written about for thousands of years. But I mean, I think it would be universally agreed that those are all obviously virtues.
SPEAKER_01And but but that that one I think is a little bit tricky. Right. What is justice for some may not be justice for others. We don't engage in ethical relativism here.
SPEAKER_00But uh Yeah, I I think that that is a good point, right? And especially when we're talking about it from a narrative device perspective. Perspective is that it can certainly drive the motives of characters in different directions. What some might see as a just decision would be cause for vengeance in another, whether right or wrong. But that I think is a very interesting thing. And then she goes on talking about that you must learn to rule, and it's something that none of your ancestors learned, which made him angry. Um, saying, like, you know, my father rules an entire planet. And basically losing it. Yes. And then he's getting another one, and he's like, she'll he'll lose that too. So she's just like knocking him down.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
Dr. Yueh’s Gift And Hidden Faultlines
SPEAKER_00And so yeah, he gets this uh, you know, he gets angry. But uh but it's very interesting. And uh it's kind of interesting that she she talks or he's he's kind of relaying parts of this conversation to Thufer, but there's parts that uh for whatever reason he feels a compulsion not to discuss with him. But I liked this part here. She asked me to tell her what it is to rule, and I said that one commands, and she said I had some unlearning to do. And then she said, a ruler must learn to persuade and not to compel. He must lay the best coffee hearth to attract the finest men. Um And then I like this little bit here. A good ruler has to learn his world's language, that it's different for every world, and I thought she meant they didn't speak Gallic on Arrakis, but she said that it wasn't it at all. She meant the language of the rocks and growing things, the language you don't hear just with your ears. And I said that's what Dr. Yue calls the mystery of life, which made her mad. And she said it's not a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. And so I quoted the first law of mentat at her. A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it that seemed to satisfy her. So, like there's a lot of philosophy and stuff kind of just loaded into those couple paragraphs there. But obviously, I mean this one kind of a superficial level, the language of a world, right? There's not just spoken written language, right? There's different means of communication, cultures, traditions, the way that one interacts with one's environment, all those sorts of things. So I think it's uh it's very interesting from that perspective there. And then the the bit about uh not stopping things, right? So kind of going with the flow, if you will. Mm-hmm. But but yeah, basically if one stops a process, one destroys it. It's kind of like the the way that uh, well, you if you dissect something, you injure it and kill it, perhaps. And so you have to, you know, be judicious in in how much understanding goes. I think this is good where it's the experience. Not on not just speaking, but experiencing. It's kind of the I think you you see this a lot with different uh religious traditions where it's not just like you can know all of the information about, let's say, a religious practice, but if you do not practice that religious practice, you are not experiencing it and are not part of it. And I think that's kind of what they're hinting at a little bit here. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. I love a good pithy quote.
SPEAKER_00So now we start getting some discourse on the freemen themselves. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Paul Paul seems to think for some reason that the Freemen will help them, will be of assistance to them during this potential attack on them. And it does seem like a Thufair is considering as a possibility. It does seem like that is the reason that they've sent this Duncan ahead in advance, is to kind of first entreat with them, try to win them to their side. Because uh obviously, you know, with the first impression we have, the barons, they're not gonna be respecting of indigenous cultures, they're not gonna be considering them equals, just taking advantage of anything and everything that they can. So perhaps by this new stewardship, they might be able to curry some sort of favor with them to get them on their side. Because they they are reputed to be like very fierce, very strong, very very valorant. So very many positive attributes that the Reverend Mother was talking about just a second ago. Right.
SPEAKER_00And then uh you know, alright, so then Thufer kind of, you know, uh has to go attend to his duties, he's getting sent to Arrakis. I love this uh this farewell of his, uh keep your knife arm free and your shield at full charge, which uh I think again just kind of uh foreshadows this immediately upcoming scene with uh Paul's next instructor, uh Gurney Halleck. She give us a little description of him, if will.
SPEAKER_01He has one of the best introductions that I've read in a long time. He is described as an ugly lump of a man lurching through a door preceded by a handful of weapons. And yes. They have they have this fantastic back and forth of like witty jabs and whatnot. Paul initially greets him, well, Gurney Halleck. Paul call are you the new weapons master? And then Halleck kicked the door shut with one heel. He'd rather I come to play games, I know. Just, you know, in general, being kind of a not a a what I would call a well, I'm not gonna curse on here, but it's just a a general, a general bastard. Yeah, but yeah, a well-meaning one who has a good humor. Like as he was described in that first epigraph of being a troubadour. So he also brings with him this instrument that's alluded to, and they're like, I think the first chapter, the ballaset. And so as they begin talking to each other, he's literally tuning and playing this ballaset and just playing a song as he gets ready to do some training with Paul.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Nine strings played with a multi-pick. Kind of, I don't know, it feels very evocative, at least at this point, of like a you know, a lute or maybe a lyre. So something definitely kind of in that uh that family of instruments, but as far as I'm aware, it is a fictional instrument.
Duke Leto On Spice And Power
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that was the uh inclination that I had as well. The only thing I wasn't sure of, so it refers to an Inkvine scar running along his jaw, writhing as he turned. Is I wasn't sure if this was something specific to the this universe, this Inkvine scar? Because it it sounds like it's almost like a living thing, it's not just a scar on his jaw.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think um I think it's something that was incurred, and they talk about this a little bit later on in this section, well not our section for today, um, about how it was probably inflicted on him when he was imprisoned and probably being tortured. So it kind of again it just hints at a a hard past. And so we get this contrast of, as I said, right, a troubadour warrior. Mm-hmm. So he's he's got this uh, as I said, moods, deviltry, and humors. So he's he's very much a roguish type of figure.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00But also very kind of a hard-bitten, hard-proven sort of figure. So yeah, they continue talking and so yeah, that as you said, right, they keep kind of trading these these insults, these little barbs, back and forth, and we get a little body song from Gurney there, and you know, they they go back and forth, and eventually they get into what he's actually there for, which is Paul's lesson for the day. So they have this kind of extended fight, and we get some information about the fighting style in this world, which I think was very interesting. So we kind of get a little bit of information about these personal shields, which they talk about the speed of entry. So essentially these shields block things that move quickly. You have to time the speed of your strikes, right? Which again, right, there's the the superficial layer, which like, you know, in personal combat, you have to time your strikes appropriately. But then there's also the broader implication that in this world, timing of a strike and an unanticipated angle are all very important to one another. So I think there's a second layer too there. And they talk about using different weapons here. And so I just like this little the Kinjal, which uh is basically kind of like a like a long dagger, more or less. And they're talking about not being in the mood, and that kind of gets you know Gurney's blood up, and uh you fight when you need to. Mood's a thing for cattle or making love or playing the ballast, if not for fighting. And so then they kind of get into it and they have a back and forth, you talk about the little you know, you get a little sword fight action here. And I like this because it it also implies like the bubbles grew stale within the shields because it's slowing even the speed of the air going in and out of their shields, which again, maybe that'll play a role later on. But I thought it was very interesting. And so you kind of get this back and forth, they kind of come to a little bit of a draw where they both have their knives placed at uh others' vital areas.
SPEAKER_01I did think it was interesting, real quick, in the middle of that fight, that it seemed that Gurney was pressing him particularly harder than usual. That Paul thought, is this betrayal, Paul wondered? Surely not Gurney, just because there have been allusions, yeah, to a traitor, somebody who will betray them at some point, and they don't know who.
Missionaria Protectiva Revealed
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, and then here's the little bit here. Uh Beast Rabin in a Harkinen slave pit on Getty Prime was the ink mine scar. Okay. So yes, it was uh it was torture. So going forward, we again have a and here's a little thing that from my previous read through, I did not remember here. Uh for some reason he recalled his younger sister, Paul, her elfin face so cleaner's mind, but she was dead now in a pleasure house for Harken and troops. She had loved pansies, or was it Daisies? He couldn't remember. It bothered him that he couldn't remember. So again, uh just a little bit of foreshadowing here, potentially. Like, why why does his sister come to mind? This is the first time we've heard of her, as far as I can recall. And so um, does this mean anything? What does it mean? Is it just another reason for him to hate the Harkinans? Maybe. But so we kind of would go forward again, and basically, right, we've gone we've cycled through two instructors, and now we get our third coming in. This is Dr. Oh yeah, this is where I uh it's right here in the book, UA, UE, with the long E uh in the pronunciation. Okay. And as you said, in this bibliography from the dictionary of Mu'adib, chiefly noted as betrayer of Duke Vito Atreides. So this kind of reminds me, alright, I know people may be tired of me making like uh biblical uh references, but like in the you know, the Gospel of John or you know some of the others, it'll say like, you know, and Judas, who was the betrayer. You know, uh it's just like, you know, this guy. I'll forget. Right. And it's like uh, you know, like spoilers, man. Uh but uh haven't gotten to that part yet. Right. So we get a little description of him, uh wrinkled black clothing, square block of a head with purple lips and drooping mustache, a diamond tattoo of imperial conditioning, right? We talked about that before. It's supposed to be some sort of um way to resist influence or to avoid uh betrayal, essentially betraying one's employers, and the long black hair caught in the souk school's silver ring at the left shoulder. So again, we get a little more discourse here on Arrakis. So he's basically saying that you know Paul's kind of looking into different aspects of it, and we get some hints here at Dr. Uis, God, I don't have trouble with that one, Ui's uh reasons for betrayal, and essentially it's his his wife has been captured by the Harkinans, and he doesn't know is she is she alive, is she being tortured, is she dead? And uh basically it's kind of driven him to this point where he's willing to betray these people who he he has great affection for. Yes. Yeah, it seems like he's been in their employee for quite some time. I think later they reference uh Lady Jessica says that they've known each other for six years. So so we get a little talk about the Freeman and then the people of the graben, the sink in the pan, some intermarriage from these, polish from the cities, wisdom from the desert.
SPEAKER_01And then, yeah, this is where we again get the references to their eyes, you know, from being exposed to melange basically all the time on Arrakis, where they have totally blue, no whites in them. Right. It's yeah. Linked to saturation of the blood with melange. Melange.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we get some more talk about how fierce and brave the freemen are. They compose poems to their knives, their women are as fierce as the men, even the children are dial violent and dangerous. So anyway, uh a lot of colorful discussion of those people here, and then we get a little bit about the sandworms. Worms. The worms.
SPEAKER_01So is there a book that he's specifically referencing? I have a film book. Only 110 meters long, 22 meters in diameter. It was taken in the northern latitudes. Worms of more than 400 meters in length have been recorded by reliable witnesses, and there's reason to believe even larger ones exist. I feel like in the movies, they look a lot bigger than 400 meters.
SPEAKER_00Well, some of them, yeah. But I mean that's I guess that's kind of the point, is that they talk about this at several points, so that the the Harkinans had kind of had a bit of an information blackout. Yeah, yeah. So so it's very probable that information that people outside of that family have is incomplete or even distorted. Mm-hmm. So so I think that's I think that's entirely plausible. Um here, this is something I think is very interesting. So he gives him this uh device, uh kind of like uh like a fancy futuristic thumb drive. What do they call it, like an electrostatic uh book, an orange Catholic Bible. And they they read some passages from it, right? He's kind of say, oh, you know, I'm uh trying to salve my own conscious. Thus I may say that to myself that he has gone where I cannot go. I assume he means to you know heaven or whatever other version of the afterlife is that is for people who aren't betrayers. So they kind of go here, uh and he says, 467 Kalima, but that's not where he opens it to. There's a slight notch. Think you of the fact that a deaf person cannot hear, then what deafness may we not all possess? What senses do we lack that we cannot see and cannot hear another world all around us? What is there around us that we cannot And he you know stops him and is like that was actually his wife's favorite passage, not the one that he was trying to get him to open. And so it kind of we get this sense of maybe some emotional instability, understandably, uh, from Dr. Huey in this context. So And I like this, we get another reference to your favorite phrase here, Will. Paul felt something stir.
SPEAKER_01His terrible purpose. Yeah, it's funny. During during this section that we were we ride for today, I I saw that pop up, I want to say like three different times, and I just highlighted it each time. It's like, oh, there's that terrible purpose again. Yes. And I'll I'll definitely talk a little more about it at the I think the next one that I remember just because he talks about it a little more in depth, but it's a fun little phrase. Yes. One thing also before we jump past this is I I liked how when Yui gave him the book, I gave him the Cersei of Religion before portraying him. Thus I say to myself that he has gone where I cannot go. Just I don't know. There's there's something very grave, very momentous about that sort of phrasing where he's like, right, here you go. So yeah, he r accidentally reads the passage that was his wife's favorite. He has a little freak out about it, and then what else does he do after that? Your father will be here in a minute. Basically, uh he doesn't want other folks necessarily to see it as well, because they might wonder as to his motivations for doing so. Apparently, this is a pretty valuable piece of technology, a piece of literature. Right, right.
Arrakeen Arrival And Water Culture
SPEAKER_00So again, we are cycling through, right? We're getting all this exposition through these different viewpoints, these different kind of almost archetypes of characters, kind of alluded to from the Reverend Mother's description here and the intro of that one chapter here. And so now we get uh Duke Leto himself, which I love this in this phrase here, a man snared by destiny, who in the description, they say he's tall, olive-skinned, with a thin face, harsh angles warmed only by deep gray eyes. And uh you get multiple references to this throughout the chapters where he is wearing a black working uniform with a red armorial hawk crest on the breast. So so yeah, you get uh the the sense this is a kind of a contrast to the Baron who kind of was, you know, more decadent. This is a an aristocrat who kind of takes that uh the duty of noblesse oblige a little more seriously, most likely, who cares about his people, about his family, and about like honor. And uh you kind of get this just from again the like the physical description. This is something you kind of see a lot in um in kind of like fairy tales and myths and things like that, right? If someone is described in a way that makes them sound attractive, like if they are physically attractive, then they are usually spiritually beautiful also, um, right, because whatever is inside wells to the surface. And uh you don't see that as much in modern fiction, but it's it's very much something that was kind of used in like moral tales and things like that. So I think we kind of get an element of that here where we have these two two ends of the spectrum as far as kind of the excesses of decadent living and then kind of the traditional um like noble demeanor.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So they they start talking, the duke's asking some, you know, common questions that one might ask their their kid at the end of a day, and Paul becomes kind of overwhelmed again by the memory of the Reverend Mother saying that for the father, nothing in terms of is there anything that we could do to save him? And this is a question that Paul was actually asking kind of each of his companion tears like, will Arrakis be dangerous? Yeah. And at first the Duke tries to, you know, kind of gloss over it, give him kind of, you know, the oh yeah, you know, blah, blah, blah, it'll be fine. But he has this kind of thought, this is my son. It's like, yeah, and he says it will be dangerous, he admitted. Right.
SPEAKER_00And again, it's like go ahead. Oh no, I was gonna say, yeah, that that that sentence I also had had marked here. It's like this is, you know, it's a a change in mindset. Um, you know, almost as if it's marking a transition from kind of like childhood to manhood. Right? He's like he's bringing him into this. And we see this as we go on further, that uh he gets involved more and more as as the plot progresses with with some of these plans and conversations and things like that. That you kind of it's not explicitly stated, but I think it's implied a little bit that um he probably wasn't involved with as much previously. So kind of this, you know, like he's the heir, he's the son, he is being groomed to assume the position of the duchy. The duke, dukedom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00To be the new leader. So but just as we have previously gotten a it's kind of like we went through all these different aspects of here, and each one of these characters, right? So we had like Thufer. Talking about some of the general things about Arrakis, and then we've got Gurney Halleck talking a little bit about some of the ecology, I believe it was. Or was that Thufer? God, I'm already forgetting what we talked about.
SPEAKER_01I think Thufer was talking a little more about the ecology, and then Okay. What did yeah, what did Gurney say? What about the Oh no? That was just all barbs. Okay. It was much exposition.
The Crysknife And The Test
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then we get uh ecology with Yui, and now with uh Duke Leto, we're getting some more like economic and political discussion. So it's very interesting how they've used these different characters kind of like as like expository vehicles, essentially. In a way that, you know, seems organic. So we get this chome company, I don't know if that's pronounced correctly. Combine honete over advance mercantiles, uh, which we will be calling chome from now on. But um yeah, basically it's this uh this minop this trade monopoly. And um yeah, he kind of talks about they they're involved with everything, you know, things that are expensive, things that are cheap, right? Logs, donkeys, horse cows, and then, you know, machines, art, but all fades before melange. A handful of spice will buy a home on Tupile. It cannot be manufactured, it must be mined on Arrakis. It is unique and has true geriatric properties. And that's kind of what you were saying earlier about the like the lifespan of mentats. Is uh, you know, does that does that affect them as far as that? And they kind of get this, again, this economic implication of like, well, if spice supply is disrupted, then who benefits? And it's like, well, who's been stockpiling? And we know it's the Harkonens and some other people as well. So there's definitely some folks, some who are openly and uh enemies, and some who are, you know, uh allies in name. And so you know that uh that there's a lot of political stuff, right? Lowsrad houses and all this kind of stuff. So it definitely gives you like kind of a feudal system flavor, even though we're kind of like in space. And um and so we get this, you know, a faint within a faint within a faint. So they also talk about like what kind of attacks. So they mention atomics here, which I assume is like comparable to like nuclear weapons. That's our current parlance. And they talk about dusting or soil poisoning, which we don't really know exactly what those are, but they don't sound good. And then they kind of reference like who who's behind this, like the Potashah Emperor. We know where the knife is, as you were saying, right? If we expose it, then the knife moves and it comes from a different direction. Right? It's it's again all wheels within wheels, feints within feints.
SPEAKER_01Knowing where the trap is, that's that's the first step in invading it, and is what Duke Leto says there.
SPEAKER_00So we get a little little discourse about um the Emperor's Sardacar, his imperial forces from Seleuza Secund Secundus. Seleuza secundus. The prison planet, quote unquote. I mean, you get this, again, right, kind of this thing about an information blackout, or maybe a disinformation sort of thing, where is it really a prison planet? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But if you wanted to create like the toughest, baddest army around, how are you gonna do it? You're gonna put them in harsh conditions, make them like hone them, right? Iron sharpens iron, as it were. Fortunately. And then they kind of say, you know, uh, how could you win the loyalty of such men? Right? It was kind of refers back again to that conversation with the Reverend Mother. I don't know if you had this part, uh, Mark. I did.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. There are proven ways. Play on the certain knowledge of their superiority, the mystique of secret covenant, the esprit, esprit, esprit, esprit of shared suffering. French, French. It can be done, it has been done on many worlds in many times. And there certainly is a truth to that where, you know, a secret covenant that people participate in to kind of separate themselves from others, create kind of this insular in-group that they feel some sort of brotherhood or membership with. Right.
SPEAKER_00And so they're kind of saying like the freemen could be that for us if we win them over. And that's kind of the the rest of this conversation, you know, Duncan, Idaho, which, you know, I know there's memes about this out there, but you know, like um, you know, Leto Atrides, Thufer Howat, Duncan, Idaho. Uh where it's just like, you know, you kind of get these like random, like, you know, very Midwest American sounding names sometimes, uh, which can be a little jarring. I'm sure there's some reason for it so that I just don't know. But but uh but yeah, they're saying that he's a good representative, he's noble, he's ruthless, proud, moral, and so hopefully he will be a good representative for us to the freemen.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And then Paul kind of gives them these titles, Duncan the Moral and Gurney the Valorous, and Paul thinks back to Gurney's one of those the Reverend Mother meant a supporter of worlds, the valor of the brave. So already kind of what she's saying and hinted at, or just advised him in, are starting to kind of ripple through how he's evaluating things going forward.
SPEAKER_00As they talk about kind of his lessons from the day, uh he talks about uh Gurney said that you have a nicety of awareness of the difference between a blade's edge and its tip, which I thought was uh a very interesting turn of phrase.
SPEAKER_01Gurney says there's no artistry in killing with the tip that should be done with the edge.
Palm Trees, Value, And Hope
SPEAKER_00Gurney's a romantic. Yes. Yeah. So if you have to kill, do it tip or edge. Basically. So but yeah, it's it's again, right? It's like uh you can kind of think of this almost like like again, it's kind of something that comes up in different literature. We talk about the tip of the spear, like in military formations or in political maneuverings, right? Like the the tip is supposed to be the most forceful point, if you'll forgive the pun. But um but yeah, so it does imply that there's like a a directness to it, which maybe is less quote-unquote romantic. But uh, moving on from that, we start getting a little bit of information about the Space Guild. And they talk about a I'm just gonna say Highliner. It's kind of German spelled here. Chi-I-G-H-liner. But it's basically like a huge interstellar spaceship, and it'll basically fit all of their frigates, so all of their own ships and transports into just a small corner, and they're not allowed to leave, not allowed to look around, um, and it's part of their contract. Otherwise, they will lose their transport privileges. Yeah. And that is real bad.
SPEAKER_01Apparently. In addition to the Mopoly, the the secrecy is also a big part of kind of what the space guilds expects in terms of like how they operate and how they do things. Yeah. And also it's alluded to that they've mutated to some extent from exposure to space. Maybe spice.
SPEAKER_00TBD. TBD. And then we get another hard shifting conversation to paraphrase Hagrid from Harry Potter. It's like, you're a mentat, Paul. So uh yeah, basically we get uh like Paul's basically like the uh most uh potential, has the most potential of everybody, anybody anywhere, yes, anytime.
SPEAKER_01Ever.
SPEAKER_00So he's you know, he's he's uh Benny Jesserit trained, he's got these ment capabilities, so he's he's super duper smart is basically what we're we're saying here. I mean, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but the mnemonics, the focusing of awareness, the muscle control and sharpening of sensitivities, the study of languages and nuances of voices, all of it clicked into a new kind of understanding in his mind. So basically it was like yeah, I have been undergoing all this training. Duh. So yeah, he kind of has this epiphany of like, oh yeah, and basically says, yes, I will do it. Which not terribly surprising. And then I like this little thought at the end of the chapter here. Perhaps being a mentot is terrible purpose, but even as he focused on this thought, his new awareness denied it. So not the terrible purpose. Terrible purpose to be determined as we go.
SPEAKER_01Like he's aware of it. It's reawakened with him, but it's not being a mentat. Right.
SPEAKER_00All right. Our next second we have another analysis of the Ericing Crisis by Princess Rulin here. Game signal next chapter.
SPEAKER_01In almost all of these, the Princess Rulin.
SPEAKER_00Yes, she is a prolific academic, apparently. You know, publisher parish. But uh I I really like this part here because we start getting some information about this missionaria protectiva protectiva, um, which uh it kind of gives me, I don't know, if if anyone's a Star Trek, and kind of like the way that uh the reason why everyone in the Alpha Quadrant looks the same is there was some alien species who seeded all the plant planets with DNA. It's like that, but with uh mythology. So they essentially seeded all of these planets with these legends, and you get this implication uh both here and in the conversation with uh Lady Jessica in this first part, that these myths and legends that are there to be activated by the Bene Gesserit when they uh are in times of extremis, essentially. Should we just call them BG? Uh we'll find out.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that's that is how uh she abbreviates it in the epigraph. Yeah, they do. Pattern for the protection of BG personnel.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So we get uh you know some kind of Latin terms here, canto respondu sharia, panoplia propheticus. So, you know, what the implication of that is, I don't know. I know a little Greek, I don't know much Latin, so I'm not gonna be helpful with that one there. But onwards, so how's this scene open up for us here?
Spice, Guild Secrecy, And Economics
SPEAKER_01We are finally on Arrakis. Uh they have gone ahead and shipped everything and everybody to the planet, and we are following the Lady Jessica in their new home in the city of Arrakeen. They made a distinct decision to not move into the previous kind of home of operations that the Harkinans are using, which was Carthag, which I assume is kind of a reference to like Carthage. But um It has vibes. So they yeah, they chose this one because it's a little smaller, should be a little easier to control, make sure that's safe, because again, everybody is aware that there is immense danger that will happen at some point in the undefined future. But yeah, the name Arakin had a good sound, filled with tradition, and this was a smaller city, easier to sterilize and defend. Right. So she's unloading some things, they have a few boxes there, and she happens upon the painting of the Duke's father, the old Duke, and then a piece, what is it, beside the painting lay a black bull's head mounted on a polished board. So she she kind of is wondering why these are the two things that she's happened to unpack first. So we learn a little further on that one, she hates the old Duke. Yes. Two a lot that the Duke was killed by this bull. Right, right. There is there is blood on the horns that was preserved from because uh in the painting I I skipped over this. He's dressed as a matador, so I would I would assume he had a flair for the ostentatious if he engaged in such dangerous and not very animal-friendly practices, but I guess he guys come up in the end.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And uh yeah, so so essentially like she hates this painting enough that uh, you know, so Duke Leto wants his hung in the dining room, and she dislikes him so much, the the old Duke, that she does not dine in that room. And so she takes her meals in her room. And they kind of get a little discourse here about, you know, why they never married. Uh that kind of comes and goes throughout here. And they talk a little bit about the the servant that is going to be serving Lady Jessica, the shout-out mapes, which is a Freeman title meaning well dipper, rather important overtones here.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. So on kind of the importance of water in the society.
SPEAKER_00Yes, right. And they talk about how there's you know there's legends here about the BG. Just as a sound, I was like thinking of like BGs. But uh the Benny Jessera, I know, right? They are trying to stay alive. But uh but essentially they kind of, you know, they have a little you know, husband-wife back and forth, um, you know, kind of establish the relationship, is in fact a loving relationship. And then they kind of talk about like the things that they're they reference his character, the judge of the change, how he cannot be bought, and uh kind of alluding to some things that he's going to have to deal with, like the spice hunters and different political factions on the planet, right? So so far we only know about like the Freeman, the Harkins, and here we have this other kind of imperial official, the judge, and then kind of these uh spice hunters, uh which I think in previous chapters have been kind of alluded to as like maybe smuggler adjacent. So there's definitely like some different political factions going on here, and he's kind of having to ease his way into this turmoil.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, one of the uh things that I believe that they mentioned when the judge was specified that there would be people allowed to leave who were previously working on these uh spice extractions or uh spice harvestings. So there's definitely some expected kind of hiccups to be expected in production as they take over the reins of this operation, and you know, we're going to assume that the Harkonens are doing something also too, in addition to this grand scheme of trying to kill them to uh also just make them look bad in the process as they do it. Right, right, right. It's all about the reputation.
Yueh’s Motive And Looming Betrayal
SPEAKER_00Very much so. So next we get the introduction of the Shadow Up Mapes, and she is an interesting character, certainly. So she's our first uh Freeman character that gets introduced here, and they describe her as the woman looked as wrinkled and desiccated as any member of the mob that had greeted him along the way from the landing field that morning. And then she said every native she had seen on this planet looked prune-dry and undernourished, yet Leto had said they were strong and vital, and there were the eyes, of course, that wash of deepest, darkest blue without any white, secretive, mysterious. So, you know, a uh heavy description. So we kind of get this this old lady who is here, and we kind of talk about uh how she is asking, like, is there a wife also? Because I know you're just the concubine. And they kind of you know talk about like that's political, but she has this inner monologue, and of course I have to I'll bite on this diversion here. What was it St. Augustine said? The mind commands the body and it obeys, the mind orders itself and meets resistance. Yes, I'm meeting more resistance lately. So I of course I had to look this up. Um so this was from his book, Confessions, and basically the the more expanded, it's like it's an entire discourse on on this, right? Because we essentially say, like, you know, when I go to move my hand, the thought and the action are as one. But when I seek to order myself, right? Uh to order my thoughts, like you know, it's kind of like the, you know, don't think about the word purple. Or don't think about the purple cow. Uh-huh. Well, now you can't. Uh so essentially there's no separation between will and movement, but a lack of complete will, basically, it will wouldn't if it was complete, it would not need a command because it would already be. So basically it's implying that there is a lack of will or a division of will, and you are not completely committed to a course of action.
SPEAKER_01So she she goes on to kind of talk with her a little more. She hears kind of an outside cry from the house, and she asks what it is, and it's a water cellar. And so, again, we're once more reminded of the importance of water. Apparently, the cistern at the house that they're residing in holds 50,000 liters and it's always kept full. And then she goes on to kind of laugh at herself, why, you know, my lady, I don't even have to wear my still suit here. She cackled, and me, not even dead. It's right. It's just like a a certain a certain amount of brutality and just the level of the way the planet is the enemy here. Just this is not a planet designed to keep things alive. At least not humor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like the sense of humor has a bit of a sharp edge to it. I guess no pun intended. But uh it reminds me a lot, like this is like how it feels like cultures that are from these extreme environments typically tend to be characterized in fiction. I think of like Wheel of Time with the uh aeel in the like the desert wastes in the mountains. Kind of that same thing where they have these like jokes that are kind of impenetrable or inscrutable to kind of the the people from the wetlands, quote unquote. But uh but yeah, it's it's very interesting as far as like kind of this universality of like harsh environments creating a harsh people. I'm sure there's going to be more discourse on that as we go here. Absolutely. And you know, as we go forward here, she we kind of get these implications. Lady Jessica is like using these little phrases and you know, kind of these certain uh things like I recognize the word, it's very ancient. No, you know, Bhutani Jib and Chacobsa, all the hunting languages, as like, you know, as all the legends say. So she's kind of feeding into this like prophetic um line that has been implanted in this culture.
SPEAKER_01And it's all kind of she even says there, why do I play out this sham? But the Ben A Jesuit ways were devious and compelling.
SPEAKER_00And so basically she like calls her out, Jessica calls out Mapes and says, I know you came here with a weapon, and basically says, you know, there are worse things than dying, even for an entire people. And basically Mapes is like, no, no, no. Uh it was a gift. And she's like, Yeah, I know it could have been my death if I didn't uh meet pass the test, but but they describe this blade, and this is a very interesting, unique thing. A black handle with deep finger ridges protruded from it. She took sheath in one hand and handle in the other withdrew a milk white blade, held it up. The blade seemed to shine and glitter with a light of its own. It was double edged like a kindel, and the blade was perhaps twenty centimeters long. So we have here a Chris knife.
SPEAKER_01Got a ruler here.
SPEAKER_00Twenty centimeters. What is that? It's uh about a little bit less than ten eight inches? About eight inches. Alright. So what can you tell us about Chris knives, Will?
SPEAKER_01So, yeah, apparently they are fangs from the sandworms themselves. I don't know if she refers to Shah Halud here.
SPEAKER_00They talk a little bit about that later.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, apparently it's you know, it has very significant cultural significance there. How how is it listed here? The blade that had never been taken off the plant and was known only by rumor and wild gossip. And then Mapes says, Do you know its meaning? And Lady Jessica here is kind of like debating on what the correct answer here is. And she's about to say the death maker, but she just says, It's a maker, and then Mapes cuts her off. And it's like, Yes, it is. It is a maker. And it's just very yeah, it's it's a very interesting. Interesting exchange as kind of Lady Jessica begins to embrace these legends that have been planted here to kind of pave the way, hopefully, for a path of safety for some right.
SPEAKER_00And so we find out these knives are like unstable in some fashion. So if they're more than a week away from flesh, it disintegrates a tooth of shy hulud. So again, which I think we've been told are the the sandworms.
SPEAKER_01But um I don't I don't think it's an unfair inference if we haven't.
Takeaways And What’s Next
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And then uh she I like this. She risked a gamble, it's like you've sheath sheathed that blade unblooded, and uh she tore open her her bodice saying, Take the water of my life, which again, like these turns of phrases that really imply a importance of water for culture. So again, right, these turns of phrases, it just enhances the versatilitude in these. And so she does a little scratch on her left breast and a thick walling of blood that stopped almost immediately. And she's just like, even in the midst of this like high stress situation, like, hmm, ultra-fast coagulation, perhaps a moisture-conserving mutation. Right. So again, right, this just emphasizing the clinical analytical mind of the training that she has undergone.
SPEAKER_01And then after that exchange, Mapes basically believes 100% that you are ours, you are the one. So Jessica kind of thinks like, all right, I've taken the first step down here. I know it now, Jessica thought.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I like this. The thing must take its course. Specific catchphrase. So, right, we we know that there's different incantations in the missionaria protectiva. And the coming of the River Mother to free you, and she's like, but I'm not a river mother. And she's like, Great mother, they planted that one here. This must be a hideous place. So we don't get exactly what that is just yet, but I find that again, right, this this foreshadowing uh is very fascinating to me and it makes me want to learn more. So it keeps me turning the pages. But when I see stuff like that, I'm like, what is so terrible? Like what uh what in the the BG lore is of such terribleness that uh they would give her that reaction.
SPEAKER_01So now that Shutout Mapes has more or less been placated for the moment, she actually steps into her role as the housekeeper, and this is where we learn again about the bull and the old Duke, and more or less just tells her, go hang that up in the dining room, just face them opposite sides of each other, I don't care which side which. Right, right.
SPEAKER_00So then we kind of move along a little bit, and uh we've got Dr. Huey and Lady Jessica having a conversation as she looks for Paul, who's taking a nap essentially. And so we get uh Dr. Yui and Jessica talking, and uh he's he's kind of acting weird, but uh he tries to play it up and calls her Jessica instead of you know Lady Jessica, saying, like, ah, now anything I say will, you know, she'll just think I'm just being awkward, uh as opposed to like anything more. And again, we get this discourse about water. Water and the value of human life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then we further go on here. So this is where we learn, yeah, they've known each other for six years. We learn a little more about Juana. So we learn here that she was also part of the Bene Gesserit, apparently. She didn't have the full truth say as Juana had been. So he's like, okay, I can get away with lying to her at least a little bit. He's not he's not gonna push it. But he's definitely kind of using this misstep, this faux pas as a way to kind of yeah, hide and mask any sort of lying that he might do here to make himself, you know. Obviously, he's uneasy, but now he's got an excuse to kind of cover that up. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So so I like this uh this discourse about the palm trees here. A line of twenty palm trees growing along the road. There's a a shimmer in the air, a house shield, right? We've heard a little bit about these like electrostatic personal shields, but there's large ones for buildings as well. And the way the passing people looked at the palm trees, she saw envy, some hate, even a sense of hope. Each person raked those trees with a fixity of expression. Um I think this is interesting, right? Because this is Dr. Huey projecting his opinion kind of on the passerby, where he says they look at those trees and think there are one hundred of us. That's what they think. And she asks why. A palm then equals five men. There are twenty palms out there, one hundred men. And she says, But some look at the trees hopefully. And he says, They but hope some dates will fall, except it's the wrong season, which again, to me, I kind of think that has a bit of a biblical overtone. If you remember the the one scene with Jesus where he curses the the fig tree, and you know, they're like, Well, it's the wrong season for figs, you know. But basically it's it's about expecting things even after you've given them multiple chances. I mean, there's different interpretations, obviously, but uh but the idea being that if you fail to produce, then you get you know, he was cursed, the tree died. And so what does that mean? I don't know. We'll have to watch. I think these trees are going to be representative of something as we go forward. So if something happens to the trees, then I think that will have that will bear out that. Otherwise have your pace. It's just random speculation on my part. But but I think again, right, these these dates, except it's the wrong season, right? The season for for hope, for change, for something to happen, right? But anyway, that's that's kind of my thought on that discourse there.
SPEAKER_01So she asks a little more about Paul. Apparently, yeah, the doctor gave him a sedative since uh he was a bit overtired, so she goes into his room and just kind of looking into his face and seeing a lot of the mixed uh heritages of both herself and the Duke. And so I remember in a previous chapter, the Duke had described uh Paul as kind of bearing a lot favoring his mother, seeing a lot more of kind of his mother's attributes in his in his face and being happy for that. And then we get kind of this reference, yeah, of the she was suddenly caught by the idea of genetic traces and her son's features, her lines and eyes and facial outline, but sharp touches of the father appearing through the outline, like maturity emerging through childhood, from childhood. So we glossed over it earlier, but there were two instances in this book so far where there is reference to the lady Jessica's, I believe, paternal heritage, that it was unknown, that they didn't know necessarily who her father is, or necessarily, yeah, that that line. Right, right. And it sounds like to an extent that the Bene Jesserit are able to kind of know their maternal heritage, but that it is kind of like I don't know if that's if it's on forbidden or if it was just like, hey, this isn't a good idea to delve down the paternal.
SPEAKER_00Right, because sometimes they're married a little closer than might be considered seemly in terms of genetic lines. So yeah, I think and that, and like familial loyalties that could cloud their judgment. So it it definitely has that kind of a feeling of like your loyalty is to the organization, not to any blood relative.
SPEAKER_01So if it was only mentioned once, I could probably just like gloss over it. But the fact that it was mentioned, yeah, at least a second or third time. I do believe it'll have some significance to things as we go forward. I don't know necessarily what.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they have talked about bloodlines and you know how they have the the ability to look down their maternal history bloodlines as well. So with like some sort of psychedelic experience. But uh yeah, you're probably right.
SPEAKER_01Then we jump back to Yui, who is kind of, yeah, uh talking, monologuing about not monologuing, it's internal, about his wife. And it's like, why didn't she ever give me children? I know as a doctor there was no physical reason against it. Was there some Benedict reason? Was she perhaps instructed to serve a different purpose? What could have been she loved me certainly? So again, just reiterating over and over again his fixation on his wife, Juana, right, and his reasons for treachery.
SPEAKER_00And, you know, I actually had the next paragraph highlighted for the first time he was caught up in the thought that he might be part of a pattern more involuted and complicated than his mind could grasp. Which, you know, we have uh this character, he's he's educated, probably intelligent, he's he's the tutor of a high-ranking noble son. To me, this implies that, you know, has has he been so caught up in this obsession that he has not applied that his critical faculties to his own situation sufficiently? Because if you're involved with this kind of a plot, one would think that you would be aware of all as they've been saying here, right, feints within feints within feints. And would expect there to be like lots more that you do not know. So, yeah, I don't know. To me, it implies a lack of self-reflection and introspection on his part, which you know, we've kind of been getting this flavor of like a someone who's in a mentally unstable position.
SPEAKER_01He would be, as the Reverend Mother is referring to originally, one of those animals who, you know, he is he is having this stimulus to an emotional pain, and his first thought is to, yeah, pull his hand out of this box or betray the Atreides to try and save his wife in this case. And then they So they talk a little more about the general water ecology of Arrakis, Lady Jessica and Yui do. And so she questions like, why isn't there more water? There's obviously volcanic rock here, there's polar ice. You say that we can drill wells, but they always get stopped up. And first there's a trickle of water and then nothing. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Some some mysteries are being laid out here. Right. Yes. Something plugs it. That's my suspicion, is what Yui says there. Or is that Jessica? One of them says that.
SPEAKER_00It's like uh it's like the memes, you know, it's like, stop describing the ecology of the planet. It's like, you know what? I'm gonna describe the ecology even more. So yeah, uh, then we kind of trans, you know, we're talking about water and moisture and ecology, and then they talk about again that that lack of information, you know, what don't we know, especially about things revolv- rolling around the spice? And he says the name Harkinin, and this kind of sets off a whole new thing, and where he's just said such venom in it. And basically, and we should say this whole conversation, they've been using each other's first names, which is um kind of a first for them. So they're kind of having a casual conversation, or at least that's how Lady Jessica perceives it. Um, although he's you know watching his words and his thoughts very uh very carefully, trying not to arouse undue suspicion. And you know, he kind of references best to always use as much truth as possible. So basically says, like, you know, he gets overcome with grief, can't talk, and it's like, I'm sorry, I can't I can't say. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But uh there's a lot of inferring on her part, like, oh, those animals, his wife has been a Jessurit, the signs are all over him, and it's obvious the Harkinans killed her. Here's another poor victim bound to the traities by a cherim of hate.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we've been uprooted, that's why we're uneasy, and how easy it is to kill the uprooted plant, especially when you put it down in hostile soil. So very interesting. So we get, you know, I mean, you know, the it's a lot of back and forth about about the the situation. I think it's just more re-emphasizing what we already know so far, you know, riots, water, water supply issues, I can smell death in this place, guards are everywhere, and yeah.
SPEAKER_01So for how it goes, death and deceit follow. And she kind of goes on like malign him, I praise him. Death and deceit are our only hopes now. I just now fool myself about Thufir's methods. I like I like that little tidbit there about how he sent his advanced agents in here by the battalion. Right. Again, trying to make things a little safer for the Atreides. Right.
SPEAKER_00I'm going to jump ahead a little bit here for the sake of time, just because there's a little description of spice here, which I thought was interesting. So just a few pages down, do you remember your first taste of spice? It tasted like cinnamon, this is Lady Jessica. But never the same twice, I said. It's like life, it presents a different face each time you take it. Some hold that the spice produces a learned flavor reaction. And basically slightly euphoric, like life never to be truly synthesized. So it's very interesting that so not only is it like a unique flavor, it's different every time. So very, very strange, slightly euphoric. I mean, think back to that conversation in the Duke's room, or that not the Duke's, the the Baron's room, where Peter DeVries was saying that he has a spice habit, right? So you know implies that there's maybe there's an addictive potential as well. And whether that is just because of, like, is it because of these euphoric effects, uh, something else? We don't know just yet, but um, it implies that maybe this is not consequence free with heavy use. So that again, right, just it's it's implied at this point in time, but I think it will probably bear out. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So they continue talking a little more. You would kind of press her about, hey, why haven't you made the Duke marry you? And to the contrary, Lady Jessica's like, made him marry me. No, I'm the one that was like, I uh you should stay unmarried for political reasons to have this potential for marriage to create better alliances with the other great houses. So it's it's definitely uh kind of alluding a little more to a lot more of these political pressures that they're constantly straining under.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. At the very end of this scene, uh she says, All the time we talked, he was hiding something, holding something back. And she almost goes back and questions him about it, but she thought that would be cruel, so she doesn't do it. And so this almost feels like one of those scenes that you hate to see, in as much as like they're like dancing around where she almost finds the thing that would undo that would block the knife in the dark. Yeah. But it never quite happens. So it really brings out this sense of tension and like, you know, like almost there. And you always have to be careful, I think, with these scenes, because it's very easy to like make your character dumber than they normally would be, or like make dumb decisions, I should say. And so I don't think they do that. There is some examples, like you said, of that of her jumping, making assumptions. And I think normally those would be very reasonable, but perhaps in the confusion of the move to the new planets and all the other machinations going on right now, that kind of gets lost in in the flow of current events. Otherwise, you know, would she would she otherwise, if they were back on Kaladin, have picked up on this and teased it apart and kind of put the screws to him, so to speak?
SPEAKER_01For sure. No, there there definitely is something to be said about the circumstances of this current line of questioning and you know, and the framework of the conversation they were having that prevented her from kind of digging down further to understand. You know, we go to so many extra lengths here to identify potential threats and dangers. And since he's, you know, an assumed friend of six years, a loyal member of the family, you know, she she thinks he's, you know, being kind, being a friend to not go back and cruelly, you know, use the voice to more or less compel him to tell her what she knows is he is hiding.
SPEAKER_00So to wrap things up for today, what did you what did you think of this section?
SPEAKER_01You know, I thought I thought it was great. I I liked the introduction to a few of these companion teachers that we met. I I thought they were all very interesting characters. They were effectively, you know, useful ways for us to learn a little more about the general affairs of things, both in terms politically and ecologically on Arrakis. Right. Without it being sociology. Absolutely. Without it being just, you know, here's a kind of very boring epigraph of facts. You know, we we get to learn it in the same capacity that Paul learns it, which I do feel like is a relatively common method for doing that in these types of settings. But not it I really like the way that we're building up, you know, to kind of this inevitable betrayal. Like there does seem to be a very steady It's like you're on a roller coaster and you can see the hill coming.
SPEAKER_00We're climbing. Yeah, we're kind of in that rising action section, certainly. Which which makes us wonder, right? Like because there is there's this inevitability, as as I've said, of this betrayal and the destruction of the House of Atreides. So are they going to be able to avoid it? Are they not? What will be the fallout of this conflict? Because this conflict is coming. So yeah, we're getting just like all this background information on our our main players. And you know, you do wonder like how much because they're working, like we know what the characters know, right? Um this isn't like necessarily an omniscient point of view all the time. But um but we're kind of getting what they know. And at times, you know, we get some of their internal monologue, but not always. So there definitely is like an element of what are they what are they telling, what are they hiding. Although, you know, some of these scenes, well, is it uh maybe it is omniscient. I'll I'll put a pin in that for now.
SPEAKER_01Um I would say that at the very least we're getting pretty much all the perspectives. So to that extent.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we are we are getting internal monologues, so probably it is. But you kind of get like the thoughts versus what they say, which always provides a useful way uh to kind of say like what am I trying to project into the events versus like what do I truly believe or what am I worried about. Um and then kind of like whom are they speaking to as far as what are they trying to project to that individual. So yeah, and I I mean I I really enjoy the the flow of the language, the writing itself. You know, it's it's I think very it's got a a nice rhythm and flow to it and a kind of heaviness, a weightiness in a good way. Not all the time, but it drops it at certain points, you know, that uh that burden us with terrible purpose. And um I think uh it really uh gives that flavor of of something portentious about to happen. So I think it's really doing a good job of building the atmosphere as far as like this this building suspense, the coming storm, if I may. So so yeah, I'm also enjoying it. You know, this is my I think third read through. And um yeah, I'm I'm picking up stuff this time, you know, having this conversation with you and uh whoever's listening in. And it's definitely making me think a lot more instead of just kind of rolling through like I normally would. But taking time and kind of carefully considering what's going on in the story. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's been a great Read so far. It definitely is living up to the hype. So this is, you know. Literally just kind of the prologue as we set the scene, introduce characters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're just what, like a little over 10% into the book here. So there's there's still lots to go. So if you want to follow us on X, we are at Brothers Reading. You can also send us an email at brothersreadingbooks at gmail.com. And uh yeah, we're gonna keep working our way through Dune. So we'll be back next time with probably the next five question mark chapters of Dune? Probably. That seems to be a good amount. I mean we're a little long today, but uh maybe we'll we'll tighten it up in the future. So let us know. Too long, too short, just right. You know? We're shooting for that Goldilocks area here. Will, anything else to say?
SPEAKER_01No, no, I again I think this has been a great, great time as far as reading and talking with you, Mike. So glad we started doing this.
SPEAKER_00Well, onwards and upwards.
