Dune Part 3 - Desert Power

We trace Paul’s narrow escape from a hunter-seeker, a coded warning in a supposedly "wasteful" conservatory, and Leto’s hard pivot to “desert power” as Stilgar and the customs of water reframe honor, strategy, and survival. The council ends uneasily, but a relationship with the Fremen begins to form.


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Chapters

• 0:00 Assassination Attempt And Foreshadowing
• 4:35 Paul Outsmarts The Hunter-Seeker
• 10:20 Jessica Discovers The Conservatory And Hidden Message
• 18:40 Signals From The Shield Wall
• 23:30 Leto’s Fury And Fremen Hopes
• 31:00 War Council Convenes
• 43:30 Spice Economics And Failing Equipment
• 52:00 Worms, Shields, And Desert Power
• 1:02:00 Duncan Idaho Returns With Stilgar
• 1:12:00 Water As Honor, Chrisknife Customs
• 1:20:00 Betting On Fremen Alliances

Transcript

Assassination Attempt And Foreshadowing

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Brothers Reading Books, your book club podcast for sci-fi fantasy and other forms of literature. I'm your host, Michael Kentris, and I'm joined as always by my brother Will Kentris. So we are continuing our march through the desert with Dune, and we are approximately chapters 9 to 13 going forward, although most editions don't have chapter numbers in them. But today, just a broad overview. Paul survives an assassination attempt. Lady Jessica uncovers some secret messages, and the Council of War slash strategic planning meets up. Will, first impressions of this section of the book. Any any themes that struck you or thoughts that you had as you were reading through? So one of the things that definitely stuck out to me quite a bit is obviously, you know, we are starting to go through those series of events that we learned about in chapter two with the Harkinans. So this is that, you know, supposedly failed assassination attempt on Paul. And, you know, we kind of like lead towards these other chain events, I assume, as we go forward. And again, it it does seem to be like everybody knows what is kind of happening or going to happen to some extent, whether it be, you know, there's a traitor. They're already aware that there's a traitor, they don't know who. And that seems to be more kind of the emphasis of what's going on, is trying to figure out who's going to be doing it rather than what's going to happen. Right. Yeah. There has been very heavy foreshadowing. And it's it's one of those things where it's like, I know that you know, that I know, you know, I know. And it's kind of playing back and forth like that. And so it's again like exactly as how they said uh earlier, right? It's wheels within wheels, plans within plans. Feints within feints. Feints within feints within feints. And so it's it's say, like, I know what their next move is going to be, can I predict and counter it to a sufficient effect to foil all of their subsequent plans. And so it feels like everyone is kind of playing this role at this point in time that is almost has this feeling of like predestination. Yeah, exactly. So I know do you want to dig into chapter 9? Let's let's jump right into it. Uh so again, right, we start off with another quote from the Princess Arulin. And one of the things that really struck me, you know, I'm not going to read the whole thing here, but Muaddeb learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. So, right, we kind of get this emphasis again on Paul is very astute, right? He's a young man, but he's had this specialized training, and basically he's very good at doing lots of things. It's kind of the repeated emphasis that we get over and over again. And uh so I think they're just kind of setting this up as we go, right? They're kind of building him into this, you know, almost preternaturally perceptive and astute young man. Absolutely. And then, yeah, just to highlight one more thing in that first excerpt right there, Muadib knew that every experience carries its lesson. So that does seem to be something that kind of continues to be shown in these next few chapters is Paul kind of having a different take or a different interpretation than kind of what the adults in the room are experiencing. Yeah. So maybe that kind of mindset of he has now already have his preconceptions focusing his, you know, uh kind of thinking way of thinking in one specific direction. Yeah. So we we're kind of transitioning. So at the end of last episode, uh, we had this conversation between Dr. Yuey and Lady Jessica, where they were talking outside of Paul's room, where, you know, she and and Dr. Yuey both thought that he was asleep. And we get this switch in perspective now to Paul, where he is feigning sleep. He has not taken the sedative, and we get this almost, you know, right, because he's still a youth. Uh, you get this kind of useful, he suppresses a laugh at at his deception. So he's he's kind of tickled with himself about this. So we know he's very mature, but you know, still still a young man. And so he kind of takes a little bit of delight in this uh deception that he's played on these two much more experienced people.

unknown 4:29

Right.

Paul Outsmarts The Hunter-Seeker

Jessica Discovers The Conservatory And Hidden Message

Signals From The Shield Wall

Leto’s Fury And Fremen Hopes

War Council Convenes

Spice Economics And Failing Equipment

Worms, Shields, And Desert Power

Duncan Idaho Returns With Stilgar

Water As Honor, Chrisknife Customs

Betting On Fremen Alliances

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yeah, he even says if I slip out without asking, I haven't disobeyed orders. So it's very much a begging forgiveness instead of asking for permission, which is definitely, I feel, very much a youthful mindset. Right. So we get this elaborate description of the room, and we get this one line here. It was though the room had been designed to entice him, the room and this planet. And again, right, it's this foreshadowing where Baron Harkinen and uh Peter DeVries were talking, and they specifically say that we have designed a room to entice this young man, right? So it's like we've done this thing, right? It's a clever trap. Paul is aware that something is off about this room. So again, right, it's this very heavy foreshadowing going on again. Right. And then yeah, it shows him kind of just walking around the room. He's f and one thing that's kind of jumped out at me was an old film book from before Discovery of the Spice. And it sounds like there are a lot of things that actually exist on our planet, on our Earth, that also either exist or existed on Arrakis. We've got the burrow bush, the date palm, the sand rubina, evening primrose, barrel cactus, blah, blah, blah. And I I thought that was just kind of interesting that, you know, it it doesn't seem like these things exist anymore, except they're on Arrakis. You're gonna leave off the last uh creature in that litany? Kangaroo mouse? Foreshadowing question mark? To be determined. But yeah, so I I thought we see this word come up a couple times. Uh this names and pictures from man's tyrannic past. So tyrannic is not a word, obviously, that we see very often or ever really. It would apply to basically everything for us. Well, right, right. So if we're kind of like from the root terra or earth, yeah. Um we kind of think of it like like the same root as maybe like terrestrial. But uh yeah, it almost has in terms of the the sound of it, if you will, like you kind of think like tyrannical, which is a different root, but like whether that's like dominion versus earth, I don't know. It's it just has a sound to it that implies something different, but in the way that it's used, it I think is implying something just that is earth-derived. And that kind of gives us this feeling again that we are in the far future where there has been a human diaspora throughout the galaxy. So just kind of an interesting thing there where you kind of have this like you know hint of mythical past, which would be our present. Aaron Ross Powell I feel like that happens a lot in kind of these far-flung future sci-fi books. I isn't that also the case with the Foundation series, like the Earth That Was, that's kind of the legend of the original Earth. Aaron Powell It's a fairly common trope, although probably you know less common at this point since it was you know so many decades ago. But but it's definitely one of those things where, yes, we kind of use like present-day myths and things like that as the mythology of the far future. So going forward, we get a little action now. So he's he's getting up and all of a sudden he freezes. And you get this description of this hunter-seeker, which is no more than five centimeters long, a common assassination weapon that every child of royal blood learned about at an early age, a ravening sliver of metal guided by some nearby hand and eye. It could burrow into moving flesh and chew its way up nerve channels to the nearest vital organ. So a nasty piece of work right here. But right, it says this is this is a control thing, right? It's not automatic. So someone is piling it. It's almost like like drones are in warfare at present. So you have to have someone who is controlling it, which kind of becomes a plot point later on in these chapters. So Paul has been educated about these because they are a common assassination technique, and he knows that they are reliant on motion for detection because of their kind of limited field of view. Yeah, so Paul he sees it, he stands perfectly still, and kind of is just waiting potentially for a moment to strike. And he says, I must try to grab it, he thought, I must grip tightly. The suspense feel will make it slippery on the bottom. So almost sounds like he's trying to like grab a fish, uh, just in terms of the way that yeah it's described there. And so as he is kind of waiting for his chance, he hears a rap at the door, and it happens to be the Shout Out Mapes, the human housekeeper that Lady Jessica have encountered previously. And so it's when the door opens that the hunter-seeker kind of directs its attention away from Paul, and it's at that instant that he grabs it and he crushes it in his hand. Right. So again, I was thinking it's like almost like uh like grabbing an an arrow out of the air or something like that. Right. It's very it's an impressive uh physical feat, right, due to like his his reflexes and timing. And they talk about, you know, a treaties always rely on their shields and their wits, but he had gotten out of bed without his shield belt in place, right? One of these personal defense shields. So, you know, it is uh it's one of these things where so he was just relying on his wits, essentially. So it's again, it's kind of playing up that Paul is a witty, clever character aspect of things again. Absolutely. And so we learned from the Shout Out Mapes that she had come because Duke Leto, his father, had summoned him, but she is also immediately aware of the fact that she had almost been killed by this hunter-seeker. And so she basically commends him on the fact that he was able to grab it and destroy it because she claims, like, oh, you could have just taken that chance to flee and saved yourself, but you have also saved me as a result. And so she basically has like a very similar interaction as with Lady Jessica, where she kind of immediately kind of holds him in a higher uh esteem. And so she basically says, What what is the phrasing specifically? You've put a water burden on me. There it is. Yes, yes. So yeah, this definitely kind of she she uh owes him a debt. And so before I do your bidding manling, I must cleanse the way between us. Yeah, you've put a water burden on me that I mean that I'm not sure I care to support. They'll be from and pay our debts, be they black debts or white debts. Not sure exactly if those are good or oh, I suppose just like a more like a vendetta versus a favorite. Right, vendetta versus a favor. And it's known to us, somehow, not sure how, that you have a traitor in your midst. Who it is we cannot say, but we're sh certain sure of it. Mayhap there's the hand that guided the flesh cutter. So she provides him a little tidbit of information that she wasn't going to be willingly yield up beforehand, which I do think is a little interesting. Yes. So basically she kind of like goes and does his bidding, as she says. And then uh I like this little thing here. We get a little insight into some of the techniques that Paul's learned here, uh, probably from the Benny Gesserit training. Uh he paused for the mnemonic blink that would store the pattern of her face in his memory, prune wrinkled, features darkly browned, blue on blue eyes without any white in them, and he attached the label the shadow of Mapes. So very interesting that they have these these memory techniques that he's kind of talking about. So again, right, just ramping up like Paul's been trained, he has these abilities, um, and just kind of pushing him beyond like what you might expect for a normal teenage boy. And then the Mapes says that uh you know his mother's in this weirding room, uh which is interesting. So and he's like, weirden room question mark. And so he kind of heads off there. So we switch perspectives again here, and we have another commentary from again the Princess of Rulin. I don't know, was there anything in here that uh that caught your eye? Not beyond what we've already discussed. Yeah, I just do think it's very interesting that, like you said, uh the trades are relied on their body shields and their wits, and it does seem like the shields in particular play a much bigger role here in these next few chapters. We do get a lot of discussion about shields when we get to the the military council, which I think is it's very interesting, right? It's kind of finally, you know, in in classic sci-fi fashion, we eventually get some things explained to us, or at least contextually explained. Yes. After a while, it finally happens on some things. So so this is kind of interesting. So the Lady Jessica is kind of walking around and she finds this oval door at the top of a spiral metal staircase, and just thinks to herself, what an odd shape for a door in a house. So she kind of goes in here and it's got a lock on it, a palm lock of some kind, and she, again, because of maybe her her BG training, is able to like change the shape of her palm in some fashion to like replicate the lock and open the door, which, again, right, it's just to imply that these are like near supernatural sorts of abilities that the the people in this order have. Right? So she opens it and is met by another locked door. And this one I believe has how's it described? Just a kind of a general wheel turn lock, I believe is what it's Yeah, like almost like an airlock kind of thing. And so she goes into the room, and as she actually enters that second room, it turns out it ends up being a what is it, a water planet conservatory wet planet conservatory. Yeah. So she describes seeing a yellow sun kind of being affected with filter glass, and just overall the room itself is filled with a bunch of plants that would not have any chance of surviving on Arrakis. Uh a mimosa flowering quince, a sundagi, and roses. Even roses, which, yeah, I know. While they may enjoy full sun, I doubt it enjoy the desert air of Arrakis. Yes. So I thought it was interesting, you know, as as she's walking this way, she runs into the Shadow of Mapes also, and she uh the the I should say Mapes looks at this door like with this look of like disgust almost. And again, right, we kind of get all this phrasing, right? We we know that she looked at disgust at this kind of use of water. We know that they talk about water burdens or water debts, you know, things like that. And so there's there's all this emphasis on this desert planet, like the conversation about the date palms earlier, how many liters per day of water does it take to keep a man alive? So all these kinds of things are emphasizing like water, water, water. So it's it's very important. And again, right, we get like all these references in here to kind of like like biblical or other religious literature, which you know a lot of Christian literature talks about, like, you know, the bread of life or the, you know, drink of this water and you'll never be thirsty again, a living, living water. So you kind of get all these like it's very kind of like semi-mythical religious tones to a lot of the perspective on this very immediate physical need. Uh so you kind of get this very emphatic layering on of the kind of the supernatural almost on to the day-to-day reality, at least in terms of like how some people speak and behave. Absolutely. And that disdain that the Shadow Mape shows towards this room makes sense immediately. I believe Lady Jessica even refers to it. There's a fountain of sorts in there and just water being misted everywhere. Water everywhere in this room on a planet where water was the most precious, precious juice of life, water being wasted so conspicuously that it shocked her to enter stillness. So already, you know, you know, they've been on this planet for a day or two at most, and mindset of the preciousness of water is kind of rooting in her judgments. So as she's walking around the garden, she discovers a message from Margot Lady Fenring, who was another Benny Jesserit. The message reads to the Lady Jessica, may this place give you as much pleasure as it has given me. Please permit the room to convey a lesson we learned from the same teachers. The proximity of a desirable thing tempts one to overindulgence. On that path lies danger. And she has this bitter thought in reading this that she married her count. And whereas she is Lady Jessica is a concubine, so she she has this moment, and then she kind of squashes it, you know, unbefitting thought of hers. You know, there's maybe extenuating circumstances, etc., etc. But more importantly, in the note, there's some code phrases. Right, yeah. Lady Jessica immediately knows that the Lady Fenring was or is a Ben a Jesser member, and so that code phrase on that path by danger kind of implies that there is a secret message somewhere. So she tries to kind of examine that initial note in several different ways. Like she rubs the back of it for coated dots, she could kind of like looks around, and then eventually she sees the leaf that it was initially placed on, and she feels these coated dots, I assume, kind of like braille on those. And so there's a secret message, a message within a message there that says, Your son and the Duke are in immediate danger. A bedroom has been designed to attract your son, the H, who we can only presume to be the Harkonens, loaded it with death traps to be discovered, leaving one that may escape detection. And so she immediately is like having the urge to run back to Paul, but she's like, and I have to read this message in its totality first. I do not know the exact nature of the menace, but it has something to do with the bed, which we already know. We that just happened. This has just happened. Third tier Duke involves defection of a trusted companion or lieutenant. The H planned to give you as gift to a minion. So we know right now that means Peter. Right. To the best of my knowledge, this conservatory is safe. Forgive that I cannot tell more. My sources are few, as my count is not in the pay of the H. In haste, MF. So as she finishes reading this, Paul runs in there and thrusts his hand and the thing he was clutching under the falling water. And basically it's like uh hunter seeker, found it in my room, smashed it, water should shorter out. So it kind of has this terse uh conversation, and you know, they kind of start talking about the uh you know traps, the security sweeps that have been getting done by uh Thufer, and kind of go about, you know, talking about like, oh, there's a a traitor, who could it be? And they kind of uh meander around this conversation a little bit. Right. So Paul initially is kind of suspect of this room in the first place, I assume, just because you know, he was in an assassination attempt. So I was like, is this room safe? And so, to the best of her ability to at least feel like I think this room is safe. And so she kind of reiterates that a few times, both with him and with uh one of the men that come to summon Paul to the Duke. But Obviously, you know, they're like, it's the Harkinans, of course. We shall have to destroy them. Right. So we kind of find after, you know, they alert the security team of this, they do a sweep again and they find a man buried in a cairn somewhere in the cellar. So basically, they did this like more than a month ago. So this guy's been sealed, you know, uh, you know, cast of Amontato style in the cellar of this basement waiting to execute this trap. So that's why they say it looked untouched, uh like not like fresh mortar essentially. Yeah, this is you know a simple trap, as they say later. So they were looking for clever traps and missed the simple one. So kind of where your cleverness uh puts you into trouble sometimes. Right. And so there's a little bit of I don't want to say, you know, blame thrown at a Thufer, but basically Lady Jessa claims that she had not kind of searched that wing of the house because Thufer himself had kind of done a personal sweep of it. And so ultimately they kind of dismiss that. He's been very loyal, he's saved them many times in the past, but they do question maybe he's getting old and so or tired. Or tired, overworked. Yes. Right. So, yeah, just just a lot of factors there with somebody who's been in the service of the Atreides line for three generations now. Right. So they kind of go through there and you know, again, they keep dancing around this. Where Paul's talking to Jessica and says, I don't think it's Hawat either. Is it possible it's Yui? And she says, He's not a lieutenant or companion, and I can assure you he hates the Harkinins as bitterly as we do. Right? So they keep like uh dancing over uh this fact, right? It's like right under their fingers, but they can't grasp it. Um yeah, it's it's one of these little teases, like, are they going to figure it out before the trap springs? And furthermore, I do think it's a little interesting how obviously, you know, these are trusted companions that have been in with the family for a long time, you maybe less so, only the six years that we discussed before. But they're they're immediately discounting these people who could potentially, you know, betray them. Which, I mean, I get to entertain such doubts, you know, leads to, you know, sort of all sorts of bad decision making. You know, you you have to trust who you believe you can trust or else you're gonna tear yourselves apart. I do thought I thought it was a little interesting that they aren't even entertaining the possibility that Yui or Stufer could be the potential traders, despite all these warnings that they've been getting from the shout-out mapes and now from this uh what was her name, Margot. Yes. So yeah, uh it is. It's one of these things where you're kind of like, you know, screaming at the at the characters, like, can't you see? But uh again, right, it's that feeling of predestination almost. It's like there's this inevitability about the pacing that um you know you keep hoping that something's going to throw it off the rails, but right, everything that's that's kind of like it's building tension in a way, where it's like you know, like they mapped it all out in the in the fur beginning of the book, and like we have not deviated from that in any way, right? Like there's been these little, as you said, right, thrusts and feints, you know, counter thrusts. But everything has been going as as it was said right at the beginning. And so nothing has deviated yet. And will it, question mark. So that's kind of the big question, right? Uh Absolutely. In what way will it happen? You know, because as I said in a previous episode, it's not a George R. Martin book, so I don't think we can expect everybody to be murdered right out of the gate. Right. At least, you know, probably not. Probably not. It might make hard for a continued narrative. Right, right. We'll just shift perspective, bring a new character in. It's fine. So anyway, as they wrap up that conversation, Lady Jessica's staring out the window, she sees the stars coming up, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, and she sees a single bright star, realizing it was too low that it must have been from the shield wall cliffs. And so she realizes that someone is signaling to someone within the city, and she's like, crap, it's probably the Harkinans, some sort of, you know, like saboteur or collaborator or something. And uh they're using this because the Duke has taken over the communications network on the planet. So they're using basically like these low-tech ways to get around uh surveillance. So it's just a, again, a foreshadowing that there are enemy elements all around them. Danger lurks around all corners. Nice real quick. I I like the uh so obviously another light flashes back to the signal. One light off to their left, grew brighter, began to wink back at the cliff very fast. Blink squirt, glimmer blink, the onomatopoeia there. It's an interesting choice. It's an interesting choice. Yes. Blink squirt. And then yeah, another tapping at the door to summon, yeah, Paul, Paul to the Duke. Right. But I think uh that that uh that scene right there really leads into this excerpt from the Mu'adib family commentaries about Duke Leo himself. That uh, you know, did he walk heedlessly into this pit? And I like this little bit here. So long was he in the presence of extreme danger, he misjudged a change in its intensity. Question mark? So it's one of these things where it's like he has been in danger so long that he's like become numb to it almost. Did he it's not that he didn't know there was danger. I mean, they're talking about it all the time, but did he misjudge his enemies and maybe even his own abilities to deal with it? So I think that's that's an interesting perspective to put on that. Absolutely. And I mean, as we'll find out here in a little bit, it just sounds like, you know, the the deck was stacked against him from the very beginning. You know uh the kind of collaboration between both the Harkinans and the Imperial Empire, just kind of wanting the demise of the Atreides family. There wasn't necessarily a whole lot that the Duke could do with the resources available to him. But all that being said, he he is trying his best. He's doing what he can. Exactly. And so we kind of get this, I like this like Dune is kind of notorious, or I should say famous, uh, for integrating its kind of ecologic uh descriptions and nature, like natural phenomenon into its descriptions. And so we've kind of had this advancement over the course. Like this is like a single day so far. Uh so we were kind of advancing into nighttime, and we get this again, this the night's first moon in oblate silver coin, you know, hung up in the sky. And so I again I just like this kind of mystical, natural juxtaposition essentially. It's like there's m- implies there's more than one moon. And we're getting this kind of description of how how things look different in the night sky here in this arid environment versus like, say, back on Kaladin or other planets. And so it's uh, I think just a nice juxtaposition, right? It's again, like we said earlier in the show, not this show, but previous ones, that the planet is very much a character, and they talk about that, you know, like in explicitly during some of Paul's previous conversations with his teachers, that you know, the planet itself is nearly an enemy or you know, an ally, depending on how you look at it. So it definitely has this consideration to everything that is going on is the environment. Absolutely. So, yes, we encounter the Duke, kind of was leaning against a parapet there, and he followed the notices posted now above his signature, all through the populous places of the planet. Our sublime Padashaw Emperor is charged me to take possession of this planet and end all dispute. Muses to himself, who was fooled by that fatuous legalism, not the Fremen, certainly, so just kind of lamenting a little bit there about, you know, the the bureaucracy, kind of this red tape of like, oh yes, now I'm in charge and things will go smoothly and you know we're all gonna follow exactly what we're told to do. Yeah. And just as an aside, since it's come up again, I did look up the word padisha uh since the last time we talked. And it's basically Persian for like Supreme King or Emperor. So it's like uh sublime big emperor emperor. Um the high king. Yeah, basically the high king emperor. Uh so it's it was just kind of an interesting uh thing there. It's got a little flavor to it. So it's it's like yeah, in all those old books where you know King of Kings, uh etc. etc. Like you know, like the pharaohs or again, like the Persian emperors used to call themselves, where they would be, like you said, King of Kings, which kind of had a different vibe back in the Bronze Age. Anyway, so but yes, more of a is a sorry, real quick. I guess that lends yeah more to more of a feudal system, which has been shown multiple times throughout where even though he's called Duke Leto, he kind of is his own little kinglet, his own king of Arrakis in this case. Yes. So yeah, it's uh that's nice there. So we get this internal monologue of the Duke now, and through the course of this scene here, we keep getting this thought. They have tried to take the life of my son, and so we get this feeling of like this barely suppressed rage just throughout the entire scene, because uh he has this thought multiple times, just kind of interjected almost randomly, or like as his thoughts kind of approach some of the things that are going on right now. And it's just one of these, right, again, very primal uh thing where you know any any father would be furious at that attempt on the life of their son. Yeah, I did a quick tally when I was reading it. He says it five five different times in this chapter. Right. But uh but yeah, so it's interesting, right? We kind of get these these little you know, in a italicized comments here, that uh the sublime Pasha Emperor, cautious delay, etc. etc. So like kind of these like almost it's it gives you a feeling of like these intrusive thoughts while he's trying to plan and strategize and come up with these designs, that he's he's kind of in this distressed state of mind. So I think it does a very good job of doing that. Then we get like mentions of things like self-pity, he immediately despised and rejected. So again, right, his his thoughts are kind of just all over the place uh as we go through this little scene as he's waiting for um Paul to come to this location. Right. Yeah, kind of to your point, he does seem to be in a very bad state of mind. Uh he mentions around one of those little lights circles Kaladin, but I'll never again see my home. And then he says, I must mask my feelings for the boy's sake. If ever he's to have a home, this may this must be it. So he's more or less resigned himself to I will be dying on this planet. I do not consider this planet to be my home. I miss my home. Yeah, I I like that line right after you has stopped reading there. I may think of Arrakis as a hell I've reached before death, but he must find here that which will inspire him. And uh we kind of get a hint of that in some of the excerpts from Princess Rulin in previous chapters, where she talks about, you know, Paul slash Muadib being of Arrakis rather than of Kaladin, which I think there's one part where she says like Duke Leto was of Kaladin, right? Like he never became of Arrakis in the truest sense. So, and that's I think just emphasizing that the Duke himself also feels that way. Absolutely. And so he kind of was just doing a little more self-pitying here, you know, like as you said a second ago, a wave of self-pity immediately despised and rejected swept through him. And then he starts kind of thinking about, you know, a way forward. So this entire time he's kind of betting all of his uh hopes on the Fremen. And so he talks about how it looks like there's probably a knot of Fremen living just beyond the rim. If anything could buy a future for the Atreides line, the Fremen just might do it. Provided the Harkin and Santa managed to infect even the Fremen with their poisonous schemes. And then, yeah, the third time, they have tried to take the life of my son. Right. So, you know, his you know, he's in this tower, blast shutters come down, sounds like a transports landing, and we start getting like some background uh language from like his, you know, kind of enlisted men. Uh, and you kind of get some, let's just say, rowdy speech. Yes. You know, very hot shower and a soft bed, and it's like, haven't you heard stupid? No showers down here. You scrubbed your ass with sand. So, you know, kind of this, right? These are men from Kaladin also, right? From a wet planet, and now they are here on this desert planet. So there is this and this is something you see in a lot of different forms of literature where, you know, people come from one environment to a different harsh environment, whether that's kind of from the plains to the mountains, from the sea to the desert, etc. etc. And so there's like this shift, right? Because the environment does shape the culture to a large extent in many places. And so, you know, they gotta there's gonna be this shift in thinking as time goes on. Absolutely. Amongst the men we see Gurney Halleck kind of taking the point and leading them. So these are yeah, men that Halleck has been kind of in charge of. And they kind of talk a little more about the current state of affairs. So it sounds like they've been out trying to hunt for any potential Harkinin agents. So there's still some Harkinins for you, the Duke said. Step aside with me, Gurney, where we may talk. So they yeah, are currently just trying to secure everything here and uh what's the name of the city? Are Arakeed? Arakeen. Arakeen. Okay. So yeah, uh they again describe him as an ugly lump. So they're really emphasizing his ugliness. Yes. But also the beauty of his soul and mind, right? They always talk about that. So you get this description of his delicate hands carrying a musical instrument with him always. Um and I I like this. Uh Thufer wants some men who won't balk at a little knife work. So basically implying again, right, like uh and I think they reference this more explicitly later, uh a game of assassins with, you know, we haven't gone to open war yet. Yes. So this is a lot of, you know, knives in the dark, essentially. And so that's what they're looking for is people who are up for that, who have the the willingness and ability. So Gurney says, yeah, I can let them have 300 of my best, and then they start discussing retaining talent for the spice harvesting, because as there's that whole judge of change. Yeah, something yes. The imperial, yeah, the imperial judge of the change. So while that's going on, while they're kind of handing off control of Arrakis, there are a lot of workers who it sounds like were under the employ of the Harkinans and now just want to leave. And obviously that would be disastrous for the Atreides because they do not have the men nor the time to train for all these different, very, I assume, involved work for gathering spice. And so he's like, hey, I need you to talk to them and kind of convince them to stay, whether it's by money or being real chummy with them. I use all of your charismatic talents to make them stay. So so Gurney has a habit of quoting lots of things. So I'm going to, if you will indulge me. Right. As he the duke gives him those instructions to try and get, you know, play them some songs, you know, try and, like you said, you know, be a little bonhomi, bonhomme with them and get them to sign on. He says, I understand, sire, they shall come all for violence, their faces shall sup as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity of the sand. And so I don't know if you looked this one up, Will. I didn't, no. So this is from uh the book of Habakkuk, which is uh one of the the prophets in the Old Testament. And so Habakkuk in particular was prophesying about the impending Babylonian invasion. So so it's kind of an an interesting thing, right? So uh you know, God essentially says to Habakkuk that um, you know, you have become a wicked nation, and I'm going to send the Babylonians to triumph over you and take you into captivity as uh a way to remind you to not be wicked, essentially, right? So this kind of has two layers to it, I think, right? Because you can say, oh, it's a bunch of like rough, rough and ready, you know, sand workers. They'll gather the captivity of the sand, right? The east wind. And I think it's in uh in sacred geography, a lot of times in like kind of the uh Judeo-Christian tradition, the cardinal directions have different significances, in as much as like um you know, like civilizations from the south, like Egypt, uh from the east, and this is why a lot of Catholic and Orthodox churches worship ad orientum, right, to the East, Oriental. Yeah. So God is from the East, and then from the West is chaos, like Leviathan, Behemoth, and then from the north are like you know, evil spirits. So that's my rough understanding, at least. So it's kind of basically the East Wind applies kind of like, you know, this is God's judgment, essentially, at least, you know, in the original passage. Does that mean anything here is a different question. So, again, right, there's lots of things. You know, an interesting thing is that in the New Testament they'll quote, you know, Jesus will quote a Bible verse uh from the Old Testament, and a lot of times we only think about like that specific quote, but it's important to remember that chapter and verse didn't exist until you know relatively modern, and so um those elements would refer like to the entire passage essentially. So it is one of those things where, you know, is that a similar technique that uh Herbert's using here in his book, you know, for this character? Is it just a superficial because they're like, oh, they reference sand here in the Bible? Well, okay, whatever. Or is there something deeper? I like to think there's something deeper. I would think so. Yeah, at the very least, you know, I'm sure Frank Herbert went to, you know, the lengths to based on everything I've read so far, that there there is deeper meaning behind sand. Here's a sand passage. Right, right. That would that would seem a little cheap and superficial. Absolutely. And I don't I definitely don't think that's what this is. So anyway, going on again, right, this Gurney is just like dropping these like left and right, you know, uh these quotes here. So the Duke says, both open battle and secret, there'll be blood of plenty spilled here before we're through. Then Alex says, And the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land. Which I don't know. Did you recognize this one, Will? I mean, I assume that's from the the plagues in Egypt. Exactly, yeah, from Exodus. And it is, right? It's a it's div directly referencing that one where the water turns to blood. So again, we've already had all these references to water from the Freeman, right? So the water becoming blood on the dry land. That's like obviously there's there's a lot of parallels here, and it does have this kind of significance of it of it being a divine curse or plague. Yes. So again, right, it kind of feels almost like that that predestination sort of aspect here. And then I think we have one more So the Duke's getting. Tired of all this, right? He's like, he sighs, hurry back, Ernie. And he's like, very good. Behold, as a wild ass in the desert, go I forth to my work. Which this one seems like maybe just like a little throwaway line. But this is from the book of Job. And so Job, as everyone knows, like, you know, suffered all these curses. Uh, it's kind of this very hard to understand book, inasmuch as like Job is supposed to be this pillar of excellence of moral virtue, and he gets all these punishments and curses meted out on him by the devil. So essentially, like this part of the uh of the book of Job is talking about, you know, why do the wicked go unpunished? And you know, it kind of lists out a litany of different sins, you know, like people who are like cruel to widows, murderers, adulterers, you know, all this kind of stuff. And so again, even with what almost sounds like a throwaway line, like, oh, you know, I'm just an ass going out to to work in the desert, there's still this element of like divine punishment. Like, like what is punishment? Is it in this life, in the next life? So there's still, even with this single line, I still think like a lovely amount of depth in just a single sentence. So it's it's very well done, I think. Yeah. And it's coming up here pretty soon. But the Duke Leto kind of mentions to himself, I don't know if Riley or not, but one of these days I'm gonna catch Gurney without a quote, and it's gonna be like catching him undressed. Right. Yeah. Gurney Gurney has a quote for everything, it would seem Yes. Well, right, again, right, just emphasizing right his physical appearance of uh, you know, as they say, an ugly lump of a man, with a scar and wispy patchy hair, but then he is this kind of beautiful soul with this knowledge of, you know, like wisdom literature and music and all these kinds of things. So I just like literally they call him a warrior poet, I think, on several occasions, which is kind of one of these classical archetypes, you know, from from like Bronze Age literature. So anyway, I think it's uh very apt to have such a character quoting literature from that period of time, uh, where you would have these kind of like Sumerian or you know Assyrian kings who were known as kind of these like warrior poets as well. So it's it's definitely like he he is an archetype of that, which is I think pretty cool. Absolutely. So yeah, Gurney goes off to go and convince the uh spice miners to stick around. And the Duke goes off to his war council, and the chapter ends with him saying they have tried to take the life of my son. Yep. Pervasive. Yes, just yeah, reiterating again, like that's the lurking anger is still there. Oh yeah. Moving into our next chapter, uh we get this little quote here on a inscription that that those leaving Arrakis would see. Oh, you who know what we suffer here, do not forget us in your prayers. So, again, kind of this little like dark, like this is, you know, kind of echoing what Duke Leto said, where I've gone to hell before my time, that there are many who feel that way, right? These are the people who are leaving uh via like a spaceport. It's uh it it gives you an implication that those are the people who feel like this is hell and that they're escaping. Whereas we get a contrasting perspective in this chapter um as we have uh another Freeman character introduced towards the end. But before we jump ahead to that, uh let's let's jump to the council. Yes. So I like this first part here. The whole theory of warfare is calculated risk, the Duke said, but when it comes to risking your own family, the element of calculation gets submerged in other things. So very much, yeah, emotion clouding judgment, which again lends itself a little bit to what the uh Reverend Mother was alluding to in that first chapter, where the the Duke is in quote unquote animal. Yeah. And we we saw this, right? We we talked about how the previous chapter was kind of implicitly telling us how to s he's angry, his thoughts are scattered, and then we get into the second paragraph here. He knew he wasn't holding in his anger as well as he should. And uh so just in case you missed it, it is now made explicit. So it is good that uh that they are kind of just re-emphasizing that because it explains the the Duke's behavior during this meeting. Yes. So yes, it's the Duke and Paul are alone in the conference room, and Paul kind of relays everything that's happened on his end of things, both with the hunter-seeker and with the reports of a traitor from kind of the message from the uh previous lady, and then as well as the shutout mapes. So the Duke kind of gets even more frustrated, pounds the table. Howit had told me that the house was secure, and then Paul here kind of defends Thufer a little bit. And it's like, I blamed him too, but the threat came from outside the house. It was simple, clever, and direct, and it was succeeded. We're not further training given me by you and many others, including Howitt. So again, I I feel like earlier in that conversation between Paul and Lady Jessica, they initially were having some doubts about Thufer, but again, ultimately we're of the mind that he is loyal, he is capable, he's just old and overworked, tired. Yeah. Just right. There's a there's a lot working against him, just like everybody else. Right, right. So so they kind of have this conversation with this small group of them, the three of them, and then they bring in the rest of the officers. And so um, I like this one little bit here, you know, shuffling, because initially at the beginning I said it was an empty sounding room, uh, right, which isn't how you normally describe a room. You know, it's like an empty appearing room. So again, just kind of bringing in some of our other senses here. Uh and then we kind of get this clatter of noise, scuffling sounds as everyone comes in, and we get this uh description, faint smell of ratchag stimulant. So again, kind of emphasizing that everybody is tired, I assume, right? Because we know that the Dukes men are widely considered to be honorable, clean-cut kind of people. So if someone's using stimulants, it implies that everyone is like under a great deal of stress, very fatigued. And so, again, it's just kind of creating that uh that versilitude, telling us in other ways that everybody in this organization is getting run down and worn out. Absolutely. It does seem like in general, that kind of air of tiredness and stress and tension does seem to permeate things several times throughout this chapter. There's a few times when the Duke makes a comment to try and like keep things lighter that the chuckles are strained and forced, and that's something that Paul in particular seems to notice. So they begin kind of discussing things with the Fremen, it sounds like. Sounds like Thufer has a report about them, because again, as the Duke had alluded to earlier, help me Fremen, you're my only hope. Yeah. Yeah, they give them some gifts, these still suits, maps of desert areas around strongpoints from the Harkonens, some various other things like spice liquor, jewelry, candy, etc. So everything seems on the up and up as far as the information and materials they've received so far. You know, promising, minor interactions here. And then we get this question that uh someone asks, like, Do you like these people if you've heard? And he says, Duncan, Idaho says they're to be admired. And uh Paul asks if there was any information on how many, because this is something that was referenced earlier as well when Paul was studying the different literature that he had on Arrakis, was like there's never been any accurate assessment of the population of the freemen, you know, out there in the desert, kind of doing their own thing. From food processing and other evidence, Idaho estimates the cave complex he visited consisted of some 10,000 people, all told. Their leader said he ruled a siege of 2,000 hearths, and we've reason to believe there are a great many such siege communities, all seem to give their allegiance to someone called Liet. Yes. And so yeah, they don't know what Liet is, but they kind of assume that maybe a local deity. Yes. And then so yeah, go ahead. And then, yeah, right after they go from that, they immediately discuss kind of smuggling, because that again seems to be one of the higher priorities, is making sure that the money is flowing in, because as long as they can survive the Harkin and threat, they also have to survive the economic implications of taking over this very prosperous but also very dangerous operation of spice. Right. So so yeah, I like this that the Duke refers to them as romantic businessmen, which I thought was a uh a lovely little name for smuggling. Definitely very evocative. And so so basically they're they're trying to kind of like make sure that they pay taxes, more or less. So they're they're trying to say, we'll leave them alone if they pay taxes, we'll do everything above board, and that'll cut off some of the graft that the Harkinans are still trying to siphon off of the local economy. Yes, yeah. There does seem to be a very strong emphasis in their operations being above board. Even though they might do some illegal things, so like ultimately it's like, hey, here is the imperial tithe. So we are gonna be able to launder this in a way that everybody will approve. Right. As long as everyone wits their beak, everybody's happy. Exactly. Then uh we kind of talk a little bit more about the accounting books that it sounds like the Harkinans used to have. And so the Duke asks, like, did you get a hold of those? And it sounds like they were able to gain 10 billion Solaris out of here every 330 standard days. So I'm sure that's about a year. And I have no reference for what a Solaris is, but ten billion of them sounds like a lot. 10 billion of anything seems like a lot to me. It does. It does. And that that definitely seems to shock everybody in the room. Muted gas ran on the table. Even the younger aides who had been betraying some boredom sat up straighter and exchanged wide-eyed looks. Yeah. So we get another we get another quote from Gurney Halleck here. I'm gonna I'm gonna dive into each one of these. Uh I can't help myself. So Halleck murmurs, for they shall suck of the abundance of the seas and of the treasure hid in the sand. Uh so this is from Deuteronomy 33, which uh I know is everybody's favorite book of the Bible. And um, so so Deuteronomy literally means, uh or I should say roughly translates to the second law or the second giving of the law. And at this point, this is near the end, and this is the blessing of Moses upon the twelve tribes. So this is basically he's giving one of the blessings, I think this was on Zebulon's tribe. So the twelve tribes of Israel. And so you know he's saying like good things that will happen to each one of the tribes. And um yeah, that's that's basically what this is. So this is kind of a reference to like most this is kind of like Moses's last will and testament, his blessing before he dies. We see similar things with like like Abraham in the Old Testament as well. A couple other figures also. So yeah, it's it's kind of one of these things where it's like a a blessing on a specific tribe. But if we also think about what happened to most of the tribes of Israel, they were also destroyed over time, too. You know, historically speaking, like like you know, in the Babylonian captivity, we lost a bunch of them and things like that. So anyhow, yeah. So again, it's it's one of those things where on the super on the superficial level, it's like a treasure hidden in the sand. Like, what's he talking about? Spice, I guess. But yes, yes, and I think is how I would phrase that. And obviously, there is no abundance of the seas here, so that's kind of an interesting contrast, I think, too. And so Leto kind of uses that as justification to the man's like, would anybody willingly give up with this kind of a cash cow? So Right, right. Yeah. Is there anyone here so naive he believes the Harkinans have quietly packed up and walked away from all this merely because the Emperor ordered it? And so everybody is kind of agreeing. Yeah, no, of course not. No. So they then discuss again more kind of the actual details regarding spice harvesting. So uh they talk about equipment, they talk about how it is run down, even though a full complement, as it says in the Imperial Inventory authored by the judge of the change, it appears that less than half the crawlers are operable, only about a third have carry-alls to fly into spice sands, and that everything the Harkinans left us is ready to break down and fall apart. So, right. Again, another another piece of the deck stacked against their favor, just in addition to the men leaving, they're also just not the pieces in place to even kind of profitably farm, just in terms of the initial investment that would be required to fix all of this material, and the time, more importantly, that it would take to fix all of it. Yeah. And I love this little this little outburst we get from one of Halleck's aides. He says, There's no justice in this. And the Duke replies, Justice, who asks for justice? We make our own justice. We make it here on Arrakis, win or die. Do you regret casting your lot with us? And he replies, No, sire, you couldn't turn, and I could do not but follow you. Forgive the outburst, but at times we must all feel bitterness. And the Duke then says, You know, I understand bitterness. Let us not rail about justice as long as we have arms and the freedom to use them. So again, right, there's a lot loaded into just this short interchange about the nature of justice, force, and will, I think. Absolutely. It does kind of remind me a little bit to kind of go on a small tangent here of Final Fantasy Tactics, when one of the characters who is a uh peasant, this is a very class, uh classist, very focused kind of game for those unfamiliar with the story, but one of one of the characters' sister gets stolen, and the main character, Ramza, is trying to be like, we can do it. We'll, you know, Endeavor shall grant us the ability to do so. It's like, will Endeavor grant me an army? And just kind of relenting that, you know, will alone is not enough. You also need the means. So that's that does kind of feel like what that one aide was feeling here, kind of expressing, and the Duke is like, hey, we can't do anything about that. So as long as you can do something, do it. Right. Yeah, arms and the freedom to use them. So yes, right. It's kind of this this whole notion of as long as I have, you know, breath in my breast, I will fight, you know, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And then Halleck kind of somewhat echoes the sentiment of the aid. I think what Renkel's sire is that we've had no volunteers from the other great houses. They address you as let out the just and promise eternal friendship, but only as long as it doesn't cost them anything, which, you know, does seem very much to be kind of the case with a lot of these aristocratic type of things where, you know, it's easy to go ahead and say, Yes, you are my friend, but you know, actions mean more than words. And so the Duke kind of goes on. They don't know yet who's going to win this exchange. Most of the houses have grown fat by taking a few risks. One cannot truly blame them for this. One can only despise them. So yes, a definite shot. Cutting cutting words, I think. Right, right. But so yeah, we get some more discourse here on the equipment. And so I know this could become dry very quickly, so let's uh limit ourselves here. They talk about these harvester factories, which are basically these giant machines that go out on the open desert. They're flown out there by these, you know, big copter type devices. And uh I like this. We get a question from Paul asking about are there sandworms big enough to swallow that hole? So this thing that they're talking about was 120 meters long, 40 meters wide. So pretty big, right? Like bigger than like yeah, about as big as a football field, maybe a little bit longer. Yeah. And uh so there are worms in the deep desert that could take this entire factory in one gulp. Up here, closer to the shield wall, where most of the spicing is done, there are plenty of worms that could cripple this factory and devour it at their leisure. And uh right, so so some big stinking worms here. Big dangerous, yeah, right. So this says, and we get a kind of reference here that the worms always come when they're spice mining. And so all of the workers who are going out on these rigs are basically going to need rescued at some point, right? They they basically say like it always happens. Yes. So you're waiting around for a giant worm that could eat the entire piece of machinery that you're working on, and you're just like kind of walking around there on the desert floor. Right. And so it kind of puts it in perspective, right? It's this very like looming, kind of ever-present danger. In a way, it almost gives me like um like kind of echoes of stories you've heard from people who like work on things on the deep sea. So like whether that's like, you know, oil rigs out in the ocean or fishermen who are kind of out in like the the northern seas on these really rough waters. It's kind of this this this sense of isolation and danger, and you you hope for rescue before you're destroyed. So there's there's I don't know, it's very evocative to me. Absolutely. And then Paul asks the question of why don't we shield them? And kind of to that point, the shields enrage them. It appears to drive them into a killing frenzy. So, yeah. That that again alludes to kind of the fact that the Fremen it sounds like don't use shields in any capacity. Yeah. And yeah, so it's like the Atreides, again, are able to do what they do with shields and wit, but it sounds like shields here are not going to be a very useful tool, so it'll just have to be by their wits alone. Yeah. Yeah, he says the Idaho had reported that the Freeman attitude towards shields was that they were mostly amused by them. So again, we kind of get this like, oh, you you people with your technology think you're so advanced. But yeah, this was this was specifically a body shield, so a individual level shield, not a shield that would be used for a large structure or or anything like that. But yeah, so so even something that small is enough to get their dander up, if you will. And so, yeah, they talk a little more about the Fremen shields here, specifically. Like, could the Fremen have a way of nullifying shields, Paul asked. And so they seem to be kind of skeptical about that, but it does seem like that will be something that they will look more in depth on specifically. I don't like an and unanswered question, the support and Slato said, Sufer, I want you to give top priority to the solution of this problem. So I assume there's some significance there. And here's the term. It was called a carry-on. That was a large device, like basically a a large thhopter, an ornithhopter. Yes. That kind of does it. It's basically just these giant helicopter-esque or winged-esque. I guess they're not helicopter. I I think of them as helicopters, but they say they're winged, so obviously it's something a little bit different. Right, yeah. Science fiction- I think they use wings to fly instead of a propeller, so like a giant dragonfly or something. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we get this emphasis re emphasis from the Duke. I don't like this de emphasis on shields. So yeah, right. They Yeah, they talk a lot about shielding. Is there something going on there? You know, again, the wheels within wheels. And we get this phrase here that shows up, I think, again, not to foreshadow too much, but our supremacy on Kaladin, the Duke said, depends. On sea and air power. Here we must develop something I choose to call desert power. And so they're talking about basically yeah, like they're referencing the freemen and the knowledge and ability to travel the desert and things like that. Because this is something that the the Harkinans have failed to do, right? They were very brutal and basically tried to kill the Freemen whenever they encounter them in certain situations. Absolutely. And so we're kind of trying to flip that around and create allies and hopefully strong ones. Yes, yeah, again, the Duke does mention here we'll have to move fast with the Fremen. I'd like five full battalions of Fremen troops before the first chom audit, because it sounds like that's kind of when the Duke is expecting this kind of initial attack by the Harkin slash the Sartakar to kind of happen. And so they're anticipating five battalions of them, and so they want to have at least, you know, equal numbers. But yeah, there there is some potential concern about being able to get those tr numbers of troops, especially the Fremen, put together in time. So we kind of go forward and they're talking some more about politics. You know, they again emphasize the agedness of Thufer, as Paul's observing, the conversation. And they talk about uh people who were the creatures of the Harkinens here. And the Duke says to confiscate their property, take everything, turn out their families, strip them, and make sure the crown gets its 10%. It must be entirely legal. And Paul's thinking to himself that uh he knew these no-holds-bard conventions that ruled in Canley, right? Canley, for those who recall, is this kind of like chivalric code of some kind in this future medieval slash society. And um so yeah, it's uh he doesn't necessarily agree with this, because it in his mind obviates any desire for surrender in this situation, right? If there is no quarter to be given, uh then why would anyone surrender, right? It kind of, you know, like a rat trapped in a corner. Absolutely. Yeah, he even says the sort of move that could destroy them even as it gave them victory. And uh again, we get a quote from Halakier. I have been a stranger in a strange land, which, you know, this has been like used in a lot of different contexts in literature. Uh I think Stranger in a Strange Land is, I want to say, an Arthur C. Clarke novel, but don't quote me on that. I might be misremembering. But anyway, this is from near the beginning of Exodus, actually. So we get a lot, it's interesting, right? We get a lot of quotes from Moses, or I should say the books of Moses here. And this one in particular is after Moses had fled from Pharaoh, and he had joined up with the tribe of the priest of Midian, and had married one of his daughters, and he says, I will name so she bears him a son, that says, I will name him Gershon, because I have been a stranger in a strange land. So basically, again, this implication, it's one of these things, right? Paul didn't say anything, but we get this reference to a son of someone who came into a strange land, right? From a more civilized country to a less civilized area. So again, right, kind of this this it's one of these things where it's like the thought was not expressed, but the quote given can still tie things together a little bit in terms of the father and the son's interplay to us as the reader, not necessarily to the characters in the scene. So I thought that was kind of an interesting, I don't know, I might be reading too much into that, but an interesting juxtaposition. And then Paul notices the quote, does Gurney too wish an end to devious plots? So it sounds like Gurney uh gives a report on the number of workers he was able to retain, 286 in all, but the Duke was kind of hopeful that more would stay. But before we can go into that anymore, we get the introduction of a character that we've alluded to multiple times in this story, Duncan, Idaho. The man man. Yes. So Duncan has a dark round face, feline movements, swift reflexes that made him a difficult weapons teacher to emulate. So uh so basically, yeah, he comes in, gives a report on the Freeman, and some various recent encounters, uh like some skirmishes and so forth, and essentially there was a a man killed. Yeah, he had tried to treat him, but he didn't survive. And so he shows him another one of these mythical chris knives. Yes. And before he's about to just as he's about to oh go ahead, go ahead. And just as he's about to unsheathe it and show everybody, we have Stilgar, the chief of that siege that Duncan Iko was visiting, and he starts out keep that blade in its sheath. Because again, as we had learned from the Shadow Mapes, like this is a very, you know, culturally significant artifact that you know should not be just callously waved around. It is a very important symbol of their culture. And so Stilgar gets there in time and is able to stop that before creating this cultural taboo. And the Duke kind of immediately questions them, why shouldn't we unsheat this blade? And Stilgar is like, hey, respect our local customs and we will honor you. So, Will, who is Stilgar? So, yeah, Stilgar is the, like I said, the chief of that one siege that Duncan Idaho is visiting. Uh, he's played by Javier Baradev in the movie. Uh does it have a physical description of him? Obviously, he has the he is a tall, robed figure, light tan robe completely enveloping him, except for a gap in the hood and a black veil that exposed eyes of total blue. No whiteness. None. So anyway. Yes. So he so yeah, he's this very lean figure, kind of shrouded uh in his robes and such. And as you said, right, you know, he says, uh, would you I do not know these others. Would you have them defile an honorable weapon? So seeming to imply that even them seeing this weapon would potentially defile it. So kind of like a holy object in in his eyes. Absolutely. And then the Duke asks, Would you permit me to see this blade? And Stilgell responds, I'll permit you the right to earn it, to unsheathe it. So I remind you, this is the blade of one who befriended you, he says to you, to Duncan. Yeah. So again, right, there's a lot of this kind of like honor culture, debts, debts owed, debts paid, and a lot of emphasis on these personal relationships, right? So we gotta get a little more information about Chris Knives, they are ours, they may never leave Arrakis without our consent, us being the freemen. So so the Duke is kind of like trying to de-escalate things here, and you know, basically says, you know, it's my order, we will not, you know, keep it. She's kind of calm his men down, right? Yes. And so then we get a a new cultural development here where Stilgar spits on the table. Yes. And everybody is initially very affronted by it. But Duncan is like, hey, everybody hold up, and then he also spits on the table and says, We thank you, Stilgar, for the gift of your body's moisture. We accept it in the spirit with which it is given. And he says to the Duke, Remember how precious water here is, sire. That was a token of respect. Right. Considered to be a very wasteful act to, you know, expu moisture, especially from people who wear these still suits that recycles every component of their body's moisture in the first place. So to just kind of casually yield it up like that, definitely implies a certain level of respect. So they kind of talk about, you know, Duncan Idaho is offered to come and join the the Freeman in in Stilgar's siege, and Duncan basically asks the Duke Leto, like, is it okay? And they kind of talk about having him with two allegiances, more or less. Yes. And this is this is agreed upon, essentially. Yeah, and they make a reference to it also. There's precedent for this. Leat serves two masters, and so who is he? Who is it? No. We don't know. And so ultimately Duncan is allowed to go with them, and then Stilgar says, Your water is ours, Duncan Idaho. The body of our friend remains with your Duke. His water is Atreides' water. It is a bond between us. So again, kind of further cementing these ties between at least this Siege and the Atreides. Right. Right. And we get this again, right, uh, when we take the quote about the water turning to blood from Exodus, the um life's blu uh take my life's water from the Shadow Mapes in the previous chapters, the um the demonstration of water with the spit on the table. And then we got here, as you said, right, his body's water. So that even though he has passed, the water that remains in his body is still precious. So so again, right, there's kind of the this thing going on here where there's this emphasis on water, like so heavily. Absolutely. And so Stilgar kind of immediately like goes to leave, and the Duke tries to get him to stay, and Stilgar is like, There's no reason for me to stay. I gotta go somewhere else. Right. And ultimately, Duncan does go with him, but the Duke imparts to him, like, hey, I need you to be my ambassador to the Fremen, because we're going to need at least five battalions of their people before the Sarakar descend on us. So again, a little ambitious there putting all of their eggs into the Duncan Fremen basket, but it does seem like they're very short on options, and this is definitely something that he's trying to make happen. I thought it was interesting that the name of this guy was Turok. And that was I I first encountered that name when there was a video game Turok Dinosaur Hunter. Yes. But excuse me. I'll have to edit that out later. But it was also a character in some science fiction comics and things like that back back in the I think the 50s, so predated this book. So whether that's a reference or not, I am not familiar enough with the other literature to say. But just something to know, it might be another reference that we're not catching here. Absolutely. And then another mention here, real quick, is they mentioned that when they were dealing with these Harkinen kind of agents, there was one of the mercenaries we knocked over was trying to get this blade from our dead Fremen friend. They said the Harkonnen reward of a million solaris for anyone who'll bring in a single Chris knife, and we learn ultimately that it's Peter DeVries who wants this because as he has the blue on blue eyes of a mentat who's used a lot of spice, it would be nothing for him to kind of sneak into one of these sieges and do his dirty schemes with a Chris knife to kind of lend a substance to his illusion of being a Fremen as well. Absolutely. Very uh definitely some a strong reason for anyone to kind of maybe be a traitor for money in that case. Absolutely. So then we get this a kind of extensive discourse on these bases that were left behind by the Emperor that were kind of these, or the the terms, the advanced botanical research bases. Desert botanical testing station. There we go. And so I like this. They all supposedly have been abandoned, but there are reports they were sealed off before being abandoned. I love this introduction of like this mysterious material sites that are hidden somewhere in the desert, right? It kind of adds a new little mystery uh of of things that are out there that we don't know where they are. Absolutely. And but uh they're they're talking about Kynes, who is this like global, yeah, was it Imperial Ecologist, or do you remember his title specifically? Yeah, I think it was the Imperial Ecologist. Right, which is like, what a title, you know? But uh so they're trying to find this guy, Keynes or Kynes. I don't know how you want to go with that one. Whichever. Whichever. But essentially, they want to find him so they can find these bases and there might be some useful materials there. But then there's other people in the council saying no. Uh, there may be some significance to to the Freemen as far as like, you know, their beliefs, and they do technically still believe to the emperor. So it's a little dicey if we go after anything in there without proper authority. Right. Yeah, they they risk alienating the Fremen, they risk making an enemy even more so of the emperor, and so do kind of at the very least, like, well, let us at least verify if they exist and if we can find where they are, and then we can make some decisions from there. So basically, they kind of start uh peeling off from the meeting. So Gurney Halleck is sent back to go investigate the smuggler situation, and we of course get another quote where he says, I shall go under the rebellious that dwell in the dry land. Now, this one is from Psalm 68, depending on your version. Now, this is a good one. This is one of my favorite ones. But it starts, so the beginning of Psalm 68 is, Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered, let them that hate him flee before him. So it's definitely like this one, I think, definitely has a vibe to it, as far as that goes, where like yes, he's going unto these smugglers, right? They're rebelling against the law, and they are in a dry land, obviously. But there's also implication, right, that they they are going to war at this point, right? That there is a conflict that is coming. So this is this is very much um kind of of that nature. Now, granted, it has an implication, right? It's God's enemies, not our enemies. But if we align ourselves to God, then his enemies are our enemies, right? Um and we certainly don't want to be God's enemies. Is the implication there. But that's kind of the whole thing. And that's where you get your your line that you mentioned earlier. Yes. Someday I'll catch that man with that quotation and I'll look undressed. Right. So so anyway, I I'm partial uh to these little quotes here, whether it's classic literature or the Bible or things like that, because it does it does add some layers there, which again, I've said this already. It can seem superficial if just taken at face value, like it's just, oh, it's just there for flavor. But a lot of these quotes do seem to be well selected for the tenor of the conversation that's going on around them. Absolutely. Like you said, people start leaving. We do get some interior monologue from Paul now. He's talking about how his father is desperate, things aren't going well for us at all. He recounts how the old mentat, Athufer, had acted during the conference, subtle hesitation, signs of unrest. Athufer was deeply troubled by something. So yeah, he goes ahead and the Duke's like, hey, stay here in this conference room. Obviously, he doesn't want to go back to his bedroom from before because of any potential other threats that might be there before they can do a thorough scan. And then the Duke uh leaves with Theofer. And I like this one kind of description here. So the Duke folded his hands behind him and began pacing up and down the length of the table like a caged animal, Paul thought. Yes. And then right around there, he also says, you know, Paul marked the hunted wildness in his father's eyes. Right. So just kind of emphasizing this feeling of desperation. He literally says, My father is desperate. Things aren't going well for us at all. And this meeting, he he notes to himself, it did not end incisively like it normally does. It kind of just ended in confusion. People just kind of dispersed without a feeling of action and decision. So there's the air in the room is not one of confidence and decisiveness. It's one of concern and fatigue and indecisiveness. Absolutely. And then, yeah, Paul stared at the place where his father had stood, the space had been empty even before the Duke left the room. And then we recalled the old woman's warning for the father, nothing. So man. Yeah. All right, that's heavy. It's like his father's not there, right? His lack of presence, which is interesting because at the beginning of the meeting, right, we get this talk of his presence, and in past chapters, when they were on Kalatin still, they talk about his presence a lot. And here we are seeing that like kind of that diminishment of his presence through the course of these events. Um which in reality, right, we've kind of gotten most of these events secondhand. So this hasn't been direct action as much as it has been reports of action, planning for future actions, a lot of background uh for us about culture, environment, you know, political situations, things like that. So there's a lot of building going on here, but you can feel, even though we haven't other than, you know, obviously there was the assassination attempt on Paul, but um, a lot of this is very well done, ratcheting up of tension despite not being engaged in most of the action. So it's kind of looking at it through that technical lens of writing, it's it's been very interesting to me to kind of see the way he's doing this. It kind of almost evocative, a little bit of like if anyone's read, you know, uh Bram Stoker's Dracula, right? It's kind of an epistolary work. So you're getting all these little journal entries and letters and things like that as the way the story has moved forward. It's all it's not quite like that, but in the way that you get these reports trickling in from time, right? These impaired communications, kind of a flavor of that, if you will. And so you kind of get these ratcheting up of tension through these little like this drip of information, right? Like you know there's more going on than what you can see, but you don't know what it is. So there's this kind of like information behind the veil aspect of things. At least that's kind of my take on it. I don't know. What do you think, Will? No, I agree, because we we have two point of view characters, basically. We have Paul and we have Lady Jessica. Obviously, you know, we did get a scene with the Harkins, but we weren't necessarily, I I wouldn't say, following them particularly close. So it it sounds like right now, kind of the basis for how we're interpreting and seeing the world is through the lens of those two, which I does think makes a lot of sense, especially going forward based on kind of what I already know. But yeah, so any information that they would have, we are getting also kind of second or third hand, even just you know, somebody got a report that was then passed on to them. So yeah. It definitely it's doing a great job building up the storyline without making it seem too dry. Pun not intended. Pun intended. Yeah, that was nice. I like that. So, yes, I'm enjoying it a lot. Yeah, very good. Any final thoughts before we wrap up for today? I don't think so. No, it's it's been great so far. I I particularly like that chapter with the war council, but we did get kind of this exposition of like the actual mechanics of kind of the spice harvesting, which again, it seems like Frank Herbert has a huge interest in the general ecological nature of Arrakis. So kind of getting some more details about how these processes that are so relevant to the current situation without it being too boring or anything like that is Yeah, it's an interesting take on world building. You know, a lot of times we kind of come from it from more of like a fantasy kind of thing perspective. But sci-fi is always a little bit different. But kind of the the fact that there's this industry that happens only on this planet that has all of these technical challenges because of whether, you know, flora, fauna. I mean, not so much flora, but a lot of fauna, mega fauna, if you will. So so you kind of have these things that you have to consider because of the economic implications of the industrial processes on this planet. So it's a nice way to tie everything together from a political, economic, sociologic, and ecologic perspective, just kind of all wrapped up there. It's like like in real life, everything is intertwined. You know, you can't really isolate anything from the Others, but it's uh it's done in such a way that you don't feel like you're you know reading a textbook on a fictional world. Right. Absolutely. Well, no, this has been good. I I've enjoyed the plot advancement so far. And for those who want to find us online, we are on X at Brothers Reading, and you can also email us at brothersreadingbooks at gmail.com. So thank you all for listening, and we'll catch you next time. Bye, Will. Bye, Mike. Talk to you later.